Subject: Re: SLPAD - 128 - ?Entropy? - 2 - epigraph

[O G]

Perusing the story now for the first time since maybe high school, a few
years ago, I am sure I bought the book but that is as far as my entropic
memory extends, I may very well have not read beyond the first story, which
I seem to partially recall, if it has something to do with gypsies with
guns surrounding a radio station, and having only now begun my persuasive
perusal so I can't gaze back upon the total and say, Eh, Tom disagrees, the
epigraph seems set the tone yes

Or do you mean does the following bit of text from Miller in Entropic of
Cancer (bet no one's ever done that one) which you apprised us of but is
not included in the epigraph, does it temper the epigraph's grimness?  I
thought you meant to be helping us understand the grimness of the epigraph
to such an extent that Tom must means it seriously and solemnly.  Maybe if
he titled the story Maat?

Certainly nothing about Miller is buddhist, (although it's notable that the
concepts of entropy and buddhism share a type of flatlining negation
quality), and there is no reason to believe him when he says he is the
happiest man alive.  How does he know.  Plus you can't be utterly hopeless
and be happy, the two just don't gel, or jive, however expats talked in
Paris in 1931.

Oh Lord, is the main character Callisto?  Do I have to google what that
means, beyond the moon of Jupiter factoid, and read all about the Greek
stories, and then the Sumerian stories the Greeks appropriated?  How great
is that though right?  Jupiter.  Who knew that was coming?  Speaking of the
Second Coming, you gotta love Tom referring to the Christ as the Dynamo,
never heard that.

And then right after the Dynamo, what could be a more apt omen of the
apocalypse than the temperature being stuck at 37, being obviously the
distance of Arcturus in years of light and naturally a nod to the fine
structure constant and the prime-all 33 etc.?

That's almost as fun as the non-temporal pygmies in MandD.



> Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2024 08:20:42 -0500
> From: "Krafft, John M." <krafftjm at miamioh.edu>
> To: pynchon-l <pynchon-l at waste.org>, Michael Bailey
>         <michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: SLPAD - 128 - ?Entropy? - 2 - epigraph
> Message-ID:
>         <CACY4qjZZKKu1UgnHP-C2dOMKz=wQuOP21+5CbOVTgvWG8MQL=
> g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I've probably raised this issue before, but people seem to ignore it: Does
> the narrator of Tropic of Cancer take Boris seriously/solemnly? He goes on
> to say almost immediately, "I have no money, no resources, no hopes. I am
> the happiest man alive." Shouldn?t that temper our reading of the short
> story?
>
> John
>
> --
> John M. Krafft
> Professor Emeritus of English
> Miami University
> +1-513-550-9114
> krafftjm at miamioh.edu
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2024 12:39:09 -0500
> From: Michael Bailey <michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com>
> To: P-list <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> Subject: Re: Not P but Moby-Dick (70)
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CALAvXn3p0B78X8kpda7mqG0nZ+2xRn1vUqVLmMfRukuSG2URNA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Good luck & Godspeed with your projects, Mike!
>
> If it wasn?t cool with the author, methinks he or a factotum would find a
> way to let you know.
>
> Moby-Dick seems like it?d be great practice for M&D.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 3:16?PM Mike Jing <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Currently there's no publisher interest in my GR and AtD translations,
> but
> > I do hope to get them published someday. And I plan to translate M&D as
> > well.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 12:59?AM Michael Bailey <
> > michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hmm -
> >> If Jupiter isn?t a planet, then what is it?
> >>
> >>
> >> If Chinese AI gains a better understanding of public domain Moby-Dick,
> or
> >> in previous interactions, of the illustrious writings of Mr Pynchon**,
> it
> >> could only help -
> >>
> >> Or if Mike Jing is a dude* - just covering the possibilities - ie, he?s
> >> never said either that he was or wasn?t - simply being reticent with
> >> personal data (eg - did the GR & AtD xlations meet with a friendly
> >> reception from publisher?***As of yet, no word volunteered, but one
> hopes
> >> it went well)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> In the spirit of disclosing moderately personal info, I?ll volunteer
> that
> >> I
> >> also like to drink tea.
> >>
> >>
> >> * If so, he?s living the dream - maybe someday I?ll get around to doing
> a
> >> new translation of _Journey to the West_ & hope to find a friendly
> Chinese
> >> listserv?(goals)
> >>
> >> ** one would hope the AtD & GR efforts were sanctioned by the original
> >> author and would generate royalties for him and his tribe (May they
> >> increase!)
> >>
> >> Per Wikipedia -
> >> *China has acceded to the major international conventions on protection
> of
> >> rights to intellectual property*. Domestically, protection of
> intellectual
> >
> >
> >> property law has also been established by government legislation,
> >> administrative regulations, and decrees in the areas of trademark,
> >> copyright, and patent.
> >>
> >> - it didn?t occur to me to question this w/r/t the GR & AtD questions,
> >> because each individual cite was well within fair usage ? also I enjoyed
> >> the attention to actual Pynchon text, which, umm, in this group
> >> is?ummm?yes, highly valued.
> >>
> >> But would I be greeted with similar co-operation if I tried to gain
> >> Chinese
> >> assistance with a new English translation of _The Three Body Problem_?
> >>
> >> Anyhoo - weepers, that Moby-Dick is a heckuva book, isn?t it?
> >>
> >> *** oh, wait, way back I think Mike posted that he was translating GR
> for
> >> his mother, which would be non-commercial, right?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Feb 15, 2024 at 11:42?AM O G <octogonalyoyo at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Gauges.
> >> >
> >> > No doubt the following is utterly witless and I am missing something
> >> > obvious as usual, for example I only just learned fifteen minutes ago
> >> that
> >> > Jupiter is *not*, in fact, a planet, but it is nearly noon and I have
> >> > consumed much hot tea so nonetheless or allthemore in true Ishmaelian
> >> > spirit I will gauge my best.
> >> >
> >> > All previous translations of Moby-Dick have interpreted a nine-inch
> >> cable
> >> > as, being, that long?
> >> >
> >> > That is, hard to even throw words at.  How did the translators
> translate
> >> > the word whale?  Small fish?  Minnow?  Moby the minnow?  Moby-Minnow?
> >> >
> >> > How did they translate the word, ship?  Row-boat?  How about ocean.
> >> Was it
> >> > a pond?
> >> >
> >> > Whadyergonnado with a nine-inch cable.  Queequeg could maybe have tied
> >> his
> >> > bike down with it, but didn't he leave that Stateside?  Leaning
> against
> >> the
> >> > totem pole?
> >> >
> >> > Listen, I'm all for China, I really am.  I love China.  Go China!  I
> >> hope
> >> > they win Taiwan, I really do.  I hope they tie that sucker down to the
> >> > mainland ship like a speared whale, and to the sharks that come--
> >> >
> >> > But come on, a nine-inch long cable?  Who are these translators?  Can
> I
> >> > have their email addresses?  No I won't mention where I got their
> emails
> >> > from.  Is your name really Mike?  Can I call you Mao?  Is Chinese your
> >> > first language?  Which number is English?  How does typing work in
> >> China?
> >> > I don't really know how Chinese works, I have only seen the pictures,
> >> and
> >> > it seems like a lot.  Keyboards like whales.  But, so, when a, okay I
> am
> >> > not even going to bother with the concept of Chinese AI right now, but
> >> so,
> >> > when a Chinese dude, yes dude only a dude, translates a nine-inch
> >> cable, or
> >> > a nine-inch anything, into Chinese, is there a rule in Chinese that
> says
> >> > you have to state what dimensional aspect of the nine-inch object is
> >> being
> >> > referred to?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2024 03:30:52 -0500
> >> > > From: Mike Jing <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>
> >> > > To: Pynchon Mailing List <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> >> > > Subject: Not P but Moby-Dick (71)
> >> > > Message-ID:
> >> > >         <
> >> > > CAPs1BB+99E4BmHQuXeZQbcCnB-C37_ioU-KRH-kjjda1_h0fLA at mail.gmail.com>
> >> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >> > >
> >> > > >From Chapter 89:
> >> > >
> >> > > First: What is a Fast-Fish? Alive or dead a fish is technically
> fast,
> >> > when
> >> > > it is connected with an occupied ship or boat, by any medium at all
> >> > > controllable by the occupant or occupants,?a mast, an oar, a
> nine-inch
> >> > > cable, a telegraph wire, or a strand of cobweb, it is all the same.
> >> > >
> >> > > Here, the "nine-inch" refers to the girth of the rope, is that
> >> correct?
> >> > >
> >> > > Previous translations interpreted it as the length, which seems
> >> obviously
> >> > > wrong to me.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > ------------------------------
> >> > >
> >> > > Message: 5
> >> > > Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2024 06:34:22 -0500
> >> > > From: Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
> >> > > To: Mike Jing <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>
> >> > > Cc: Pynchon Mailing List <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> >> > > Subject: Re: Not P but Moby-Dick (71)
> >> > > Message-ID:
> >> > >         <
> >> > > CAD8KJ4HAKeov2FHQec9LbmOny9a_y3M-Dn3nXzatdNG0Bb96Vg at mail.gmail.com>
> >> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >> > >
> >> > > Standard rope gauges were determined by the number of folds made in
> >> the
> >> > > rope walk. Standard sailing ship rigging usually varied from 1?1/4
> >> inch
> >> > dia
> >> > > to 10 inches in diameter, the latter used for towing another ship,
> >> tie up
> >> > > to docks, and far less often for anchors, chain being preferred for
> >> > > anchors.
> >> > > 2
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On Thu, Feb 15, 2024 at 3:31?AM Mike Jing <
> >> gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com
> >> > >
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > From Chapter 89:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > First: What is a Fast-Fish? Alive or dead a fish is technically
> >> fast,
> >> > > when
> >> > > > it is connected with an occupied ship or boat, by any medium at
> all
> >> > > > controllable by the occupant or occupants,?a mast, an oar, a
> >> nine-inch
> >> > > > cable, a telegraph wire, or a strand of cobweb, it is all the
> same.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Here, the "nine-inch" refers to the girth of the rope, is that
> >> correct?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Previous translations interpreted it as the length, which seems
> >> > obviously
> >> > > > wrong to me.
> >> > > > --
> >> > > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > ------------------------------
> >> > >
> >> > > Subject: Digest Footer
> >> > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Pynchon-l mailing list
> >> > > Pynchon-l at waste.org
> >> > > https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > ------------------------------
> >> > >
> >> > > End of Pynchon-l Digest, Vol 73, Issue 12
> >> > > *****************************************
> >> > >
> >> > --
> >> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >> >
> >> --
> >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >>
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2024 18:07:21 -0800
> From: Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
> To: "Krafft, John M." <krafftjm at miamioh.edu>
> Cc: pynchon-l <pynchon-l at waste.org>, Michael Bailey
>         <michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: SLPAD - 128 - ?Entropy? - 2 - epigraph
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CADPw88kOSvEVFwbR+6qbLiDcHmT_smV+YX6L_Qm9sit009uqzg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> It's a very Buddhist sort of statement. Non-attachment and all that.
>
> On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 5:21?AM Krafft, John M. <krafftjm at miamioh.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > I've probably raised this issue before, but people seem to ignore it:
> Does
> > the narrator of Tropic of Cancer take Boris seriously/solemnly? He goes
> on
> > to say almost immediately, "I have no money, no resources, no hopes. I am
> > the happiest man alive." Shouldn?t that temper our reading of the short
> > story?
> >
> > John
> >
> > --
> > John M. Krafft
> > Professor Emeritus of English
> > Miami University
> > +1-513-550-9114
> > krafftjm at miamioh.edu
> > --
> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2024 01:22:42 -0500
> From: Michael Bailey <michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com>
> To: P-list <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> Subject: Re: SLPAD - 128 - ?Entropy? - 2 - epigraph
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CALAvXn0TbpKOWs0P2-mkkTsKjM3GtS+-f9ApjogL5Yvm52OGYQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Ian Livingston replied to John Krafft thusly:
>
> It's a very Buddhist sort of statement. Non-attachment and all that.
>
> On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 5:21?AM Krafft, John M. <krafftjm at
> miamioh.edu <https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>>
> wrote:
>
> >* I've probably raised this issue before, but people seem to ignore it:
> Does
> *>* the narrator of Tropic of Cancer take Boris seriously/solemnly? He
> goes on
> *>* to say almost immediately, "I have no money, no resources, no hopes. I
> am
> *>* the happiest man alive." Shouldn?t that temper our reading of the short
> *>* story?
> *>>* John*
>
>
> Buddhist is a different way to look at it - for sure
>
> I was thinking more like Henry Miller was bringing his cockeyed American
> optimism to post WWI Europe and hoping to cheer them up - I mean, he
> deloused Otto, which should count for something (one rarely thinks of the
> original meaning of the word ?lousy? - which itself isn?t as commonly heard
> as it was a few short years ago, although most English speakers would
> recognize it) - and he didn?t try to argue Otto down, cleaving to the great
> philosophy I remember reading on a Brian Eno album cover: ?lead by example?
>
> The article I cited & linked ambles thru some memories of reading Miller
> but finally reaches the conclusion that re-reading him was a bit boring.
>
> Eh - maybe so - I haven?t spent any time at all rereading the tropics or
> sexus/nexus/plexus - but there were some passages that lit me up & I still
> remember.
>
> One was one of those ?news to me? factual bits that I never thought of
> before, but sticks to the ribs: he was talking about a dry cleaner
> ?steaming farts out of trousers? (or words to that effect) - I guess they
> do linger there?changed my perspective on pants.
>
> One was where he and maybe a friend went to a diner & a young man who was
> there with his wife addressed the whole room, telling everyone how happy he
> was & how lucky and wonderful they all were. He really carried off
> portraying the good mood & put me in one that I?ve accessed repeatedly over
> the years.
>
> There was an adjective that was kind of thrilling, talking about the
> ?commodious? vagina of one of his love partners.
>
> His whole experience of being a fan of Knut Hamsun, writing an excited
> letter, and receiving back a letter basically begging for money, when he
> himself was stony broke!
>
> Then, in his ancillary writings, of course I can?t remember which, a couple
> more:
>
> ?Imagine a chart with Uranus impossibly well-aspected? - no doubt he was
> driving towards a point, but I have stayed hung up on imagining a Uranus
> impossibly well-aspected.
>
> His natal chart
> https://www.astrotheme.com/astrology/Henry_Miller
>
> shows Uranus in the 7th house (house of relationships, love, and marriage)
> along with the Moon and Mars.
>
>
> Also - somewhere he has a really great quote about something like, ?I
> consider myself a natural leader, but nobody listens to me, so I took up
> writing? - or something like that.
>
>
> But the Buddhist perspective does sort of fit in - although Henry Miller
> didn?t allow Otto to harsh his high, his recounting of his life didn?t omit
> a Buddhist acceptance of all the negativity amid which he was fairly
> successful in flourishing?
>
>
> But yes, as John mentions, it does seem like an epigraph would provide a
> clue or a hint about the story to come.
>
>   None of the other stories in SL have one, afaict.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2024 01:24:28 -0500
> From: Michael Bailey <michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com>
> To: P-list <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> Subject: Re: SLPAD - 128 - ?Entropy? - 2 - epigraph
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CALAvXn0w-d5qS8FOd_MCpMZtoaEY0iE7EoCu2LsPz6JJUSWHkQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I meant Boris, not Otto.
>
> (Sorry, Otto!)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
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>