CoL49 - 2nd section of chapter 5...."You're gonna want cause & effect"--GR

Fri Jul 5 04:14:34 UTC 2024

That does seem to be a good guide to a lot of things in the novel.

On Thu, Jul 4, 2024 at 6:52 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don’t think you’re paying attention to the whole Narcissist NonSequitor
> theme which seems to be permeating it incessantly.
>
> Narcissus is ONLY interested in his OWN version of reality.  In his
> version, the entire universe is only relevant for its praise (in  ALL
> possible media) and support of the WORLD AS HE SEES IT - with HIM as its
> ultimate object of desire.
>
> Sometimes life and love are not cooperative to his BREAK from REALITY.
>
> On Thu, Jul 4, 2024 at 6:41 PM Michael Bailey <
> michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> All right, if I don’t deny he’s experienced love - say his love for his
>> meaningless job and marriage is genuine enough -
>>
>> Then why would that be the thing he renounces?
>>
>> That’s the non sequitur.
>>
>> With AA, alcohol is the thing that fucked them up.
>> Making a big deal out of renouncing alcohol makes sense, because that’s
>> what harmed them
>>
>> But love isn’t what fucked IA founder up. It’s the thing he lost.
>>
>> So is his renunciation more Buddhist (like the self-immolator, news of
>> whom
>> inspired him to imitate) in renouncing desire and attachment  - or like
>> Simon and Garfunkel, “I am a Rock” “I have no need for friendship ,
>> friendship causes pain”?
>>
>> Or just non sequitur imho.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 4, 2024 at 7:24 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > https://x.com/14JUN1995/status/1808629365338476896/photo/1
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jul 4, 2024 at 3:01 AM Michael Bailey <
>> > michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Questions:Why is it love and not capitalism that the founder of IA
>> >> believes
>> >> has ruined his life?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The plot of his life has included career, advancement, and marriage.
>> All
>> >> these things have been bestowed on him and his habits have been formed
>> >> around them, but he doesn’t really know how any of them work.
>> >>
>> >> Not surprisingly, his response to losing his job and wife and finding
>> the
>> >> posthorn is a non sequitur:
>> >>
>> >> “Idly, he peeled off a stamp and saw suddenly the image of the muted
>> post
>> >> horn, the skin of his hand showing clearly through the watermark. “A
>> >> sign,”
>> >> he whispered, “is what it is.” If he’d been a religious man he would
>> have
>> >> fallen to his knees. As it was, he only declared, with great solemnity:
>> >> “My
>> >> big mistake was love. From this day I swear to stay off of love:
>> hetero,
>> >> homo, bi, dog or cat, car, every kind there is. I will found a society
>> of
>> >> isolates, dedicated to this purpose, and this sign, revealed by the
>> same
>> >> gasoline that almost destroyed me, will be its emblem.” And he did”
>> >>
>> >> - a) there’s a lot about his job but almost nothing about having any
>> >> feelings for his wife
>> >>
>> >> - b) confronting wife and her new lover actually perks him up
>> >>
>> >> - c) so how is his one mistake love?
>> >>
>> >> - d) he reads an arbitrary meaning into the muted posthorn, showing the
>> >> same lack of understanding with which he used to read the specialized
>> >> memos
>> >>
>> >> - e) he founds an organization based on a made-up interpretation based
>> on
>> >> *nothing*, and in reaction against a feeling of love, when in all of
>> his
>> >> words or actions there’s no sign of it
>> >>
>> >> - f) leaving unaddressed the only real fly in his life’s ointment: the
>> >> computer taking his job, which I guess you could blame on capitalism,
>> but
>> >> wouldn’t it make as much sense to blame the computer?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The question arises - is this meant to be a “scherzo” sidelong view of
>> AA?
>> >> - like some of the over-the-top satirical exploration around AA a few
>> >> years
>> >> later in _Infinite Jest_?
>> >> - no, not for me anyway: yes, Oedipa does enjoy a drink and no, there’s
>> >> not
>> >> a lot of condemnation of her for it, but rather the use of brand names
>> and
>> >> drink names seems to imply an acceptance of drinking as a social
>> ritual.
>> >> - but there’s no denying the “scared-straight” potential of the imagery
>> >> around the drunken sailor
>> >> - hence I see no sign of attempts to do any kind of a take-down of AA
>> >> - I think maybe taking AA principles and applying them to love tickles
>> the
>> >> same sort of mordant funny bone as putting mail in a waste can.
>> >>
>> >> — what it might be a takedown of, though, is specious “great moments of
>> >> insight”
>> >> - always reminds me of Kerouac in _Desolation Angels_ where he has the
>> >> bogus satori “you can’t fall down a mountain”
>> >> - patently untrue
>> >> - unimpressive movements to this day grow up around a charismatic
>> leader
>> >> with some “great realization” and people retelling the tale
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Jul 2, 2024 at 6:37 AM J K Van Nort via Pynchon-l <
>> >> pynchon-l at waste.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Greetings,
>> >> > Sorry this is late.
>> >> > Summary:
>> >> > Oedipa's conversation continues with the Inamorati Anonymous
>> gentleman.
>> >> He
>> >> > explains their purpose and also the story of the founder, who
>> >> contemplating
>> >> > suicide after the loss of his job and marriage has a revelation. The
>> >> story
>> >> > of how the muted posthorn symbol became a for the group involves a
>> >> Yoyodyne
>> >> > mid level administrator who loses his job, his wife, and his reason
>> to
>> >> live
>> >> > and just as he is about to kill himself in the same form as a
>> Buddhist
>> >> monk
>> >> > protesting Vietnam, he has a revelation that love is the problem. The
>> >> > gasoline has soaked a series of letters that he received (presumably)
>> >> > through W.A.S.T.E. which wipes the ink to reveal a watermark with the
>> >> muted
>> >> > posthorn. He forms the IA and uses the muted posthorn as its symbol.
>> >> > The Isolate leaves her to go to the bathroom and never returns. She
>> >> leaves
>> >> > the Greek Way and wanders the city, finding the posthorn symbol
>> >> everywhere.
>> >> > She finds children dreaming that they are playing together, In a
>> Mexican
>> >> > restaurant, she meets Jesus Arrabal, a Mexican anarchist she had met
>> in
>> >> > Mazatlan with Pierce. He describes Pierce as the reason he has stayed
>> >> with
>> >> > anarchy, as Pierce represents everything he despises. He describes a
>> >> > miracle as 'another world's intrusion into this one. She continues
>> >> through
>> >> > the 'infected city' where she sees more examples of the posthorn,
>> >> finally
>> >> > finding an old drunken sailor with the posthorn tattooed onto his
>> hand.
>> >> She
>> >> > comforts him, and he asks her to mail a letter to his wife through
>> >> > W.A.S.T.E., which she says she doesn't know how to use. He tells her
>> she
>> >> > can find a location under the highway. She helps him to bed and
>> imagines
>> >> > that he will die by having his cigarette ignite his mattress when he
>> >> falls
>> >> > asleep.
>> >> >
>> >> > Questions:Why is it love and not capitalism that the founder of IA
>> >> > believes has ruined his life?Why would a member of the IA be getting
>> >> drunk
>> >> > in a gay bar?Why does Oedipa feel despair when she realizes that
>> "nobody
>> >> > around her has any sexual relevance" to her?How does the founding
>> story
>> >> of
>> >> > the Isolate at the gay bar compare with the drunken sailor grieving
>> his
>> >> > wife? Why is that important?
>> >> >
>> >> > In solidarity,
>> >> > James
>> >> >
>> >> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> >> > --
>> >> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> --
>> >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> >>
>> >
>> --
>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>
>