COL 49 CH 5 Arrabal to Hilarius and arrival of cops

Tue Jul 16 13:06:11 UTC 2024

I want to reverb Morris's fine words in those first two sentences....

But I see many of them---as notions, as ideas, as, yes, "crazy"
associational "logic"
as pervading all over the place .....oftentimes.....

I always see him as "All together Now", as a novelist of ideas...

On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 9:01 AM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:

> I look at episodes like this Maxwells Demon play, and see an extended
> joke-riff. Serious around the edges, filled with role reversal and pun,
> crazy logic… and I think they’re mostly stand-alone chapters.  Comic relief
> sideshow.  ATD has a few LARGE sections that are like this.  And I think
> TRP would have benefited from a tough editor in that case.
>
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 8:20 AM J K Van Nort via Pynchon-l <
> pynchon-l at waste.org> wrote:
>
> > Mark sez:
> > The dead man, Pierce...   "Like" (equals?).....Maxwell's Demon....????
> > Rather than equals, perhaps more simile, comparing unlike things. They
> > both manipulate information but for different reasons. Maxwell's demon to
> > create energy, Pierce to create wealth. Again the coincidence of seeing
> > Jesus after having learned about entropy and Maxwell's demon, Oed begins
> to
> > relate how Pierce has used money to create power with how an idea can
> > create energy or lead to entropy. The demon can no more escape entropy
> than
> > the wealthy man can escape death.
> > On another note, since we are discussing Pierce's ability to curate
> > Oedipa's experiences, it is worth asking to what extent Pierce knew about
> > his death. Was it a surprise or was it expected? In order to curate on
> any
> > level we're discussing means that he must have known his death was
> > imminent. Is there any textual evidence to answer this?
> > In solidarity,James
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, July 16, 2024, 02:45, Michael Bailey <
> > michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Nice breakdown. Respectful response:
> >
> > My theory of the novel is not to take it too seriously.
> >
> > Primary goal of CoL49: to be a novel, in the  novelistic tradition. An
> > entertainment.
> >
> > Everything between the covers serves that end.
> >
> > For me, it was entertaining earlier to speculate that the estate might be
> > broke & try to prove it (came up pretty short but it was a learning
> > experience.)
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 1:37 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> >
> > > I guess I just don’t see how anyone could predict or stay ahead of her
> > > enough to know what bus she would take or where she would sit on the
> bus.
> > > Her pattern of movement was crazily erratic or arbitrary.
> >
> >
> > Exactly when people are easiest to manipulate.
> >
> >
> > Also what would be PI’s motive in all this?
> >
> >
> >
> > The hypothetical Harlequinish novel that I was projecting would have
> Pierce
> > intensely loving her, and putting her thru all this so she would go to
> the
> > auction, where he would have his hand-picked new love interest for her
> > declare himself and Oedipa find him acceptable.
> >
> > I wouldn’t necessarily prefer, after reflection, such a plot, but I did
> > like that episode of (Cumberbatch) Sherlock, where one watches as Watson
> > enacts every single thing just as Sherlock had planned, unlikely as it
> > seems - that’s part of the enjoyment.
> >
> > I see this whole line of thought as the kind of paranoia that is
> desperate
> > > and illogical and ascribes an impossible level of power and
> manipulative
> > > skill to the presumed controller of events. Once a person sees any such
> > > deception in a powerful person or organization it is hard not to wonder
> > how
> > > much of that is directed at you.  It seems rather to me that Pynchon is
> > > carefully presenting a story where the protagonist is stirred to
> > > investigate something that looks highly unlikely but is found to be so
> > real
> > > and troubling that she can barely cope, and looks for any possible
> > > explanation.
> > >
> >
> > Yes, but is that fun?
> >
> > I agree that both the “broke PI” and the “lovelorn puppet master” aren’t
> > very satisfying theories
> >
> > But bouncing around, using those now proven-wrong deviations to get off
> the
> > beaten path - because I’m not enchanted by the sort of grim conclusions
> we
> > seem to be heading for - I like the idea that Oedipa uses the executrix
> gig
> > to skive off from Wendell’s pointless drama and infidelities - then uses
> > the Tristero as an excuse to skive off from boring estate duty -
> > then skives off from diligent sleuthing - to a stamp auction where maybe
> > Genghis (or maybe even Pierce himself, in rags or a sari & turban,
> behind a
> > Bertie Wooster kind of glue-on beard, having faked his death) will show
> up
> > & turn out to be a gratifyingly adept hair-climber.
> >
> > Because I’m yes, earnestly reading and not rejecting other
> interpretations,
> > but essentially I dip into a novel in the first place as a way to skive
> off
> > from grimness, to receive both “sentens and solas” - and never stop
> looking
> > for that.
> >
> > There’s a tension between the desire to be responsive to the text as it
> is,
> > and the desire to find the specific things I want to read about, which is
> > enjoyable.
> >
> > The many quite good comments here I’ve been reading are undoubtedly more
> > responsive to the text than the ideas I’ve been floating!
> >
> > But I keep wanting to read this as a fun book without completely ignoring
> > its contents.
> >
> >
> > > Also if we assume that PI did set all this up and also made sure that
> the
> > > evidence of this large secret network  would be made to disappear early
> > in
> > > the disposition of the will, I would argue that this leads to something
> > > very much resembling the course of events following the Kennedy killing
> > and
> > > the scope of the efforts to prevent contrary evidence and testimony to
> > the
> > > magic bullet riddled narrative of the Warren commission, including the
> > high
> > > likelihood the Dorothy Kilgallen was murdered and her files stole.
> Maybe
> > a
> > > plausible for-instance  type explanation of what PI could have been up
> to
> > > and why he would have set up this elaborate and expensive illusion,
> would
> > > give more credibility to this idea.
> >
> >
> > Love; crazy love
> >
> > I honestly can’t think of how that would work to explain the events of
> the
> > > story. P does not have human villains without human motives. Is it
> > really a
> > > parable where PI is the Devil( Ala the world the flesh and the devil)?
> > What
> > > is his goal as a devil? I’m really trying to think this through with
> > > everything on the table so far.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > I think - I hope - that positing PI as a devil is tongue-in-cheek, he’s
> > just a rich dude with his flaws, nobody’s perfect
> >
> > And although Oedipa’s anguish is real, her situation within the spectrum
> of
> > human experience is enviable - she’s a modern embodiment of one of the
> > Aristotelian ideas about having the characters be of high social status
> or
> > something like that…she’s got internal class to move in many circles &
> > think worthy thoughts even in her confusion while she keeps moving (and
> > skiving)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > --
> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >
> --
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>