CoL49 Chapter 4

[Mark Kohut]

If this is a difference between us, I think this and every novel is also
about America....he is an American novelist...
and a world-historical novelist overtly in a couple of the novels...

He "lets it [America] unfold", with insightful originality in every
book.....

On Sat, Jun 15, 2024 at 11:39 AM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:

> Pynchon doesn’t write about current events or politics. He doesn’t even
> (just barely) write about historic events. His aim is much higher, and
> deeper and abstract and universal.
>
> On Sat, Jun 15, 2024 at 11:08 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think The Crying is about America, with its recent (mostly) historical
>> baggage, at the time it is set.
>>
>> The Trystero goes back in history long before Kennedy's assassination and
>> I
>> see no connection myself.
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 15, 2024 at 8:53 AM J K Van Nort <jkvannort at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > "Pierce does not represent JFK. Period."
>> >
>> > While I don't think Pierce represents JFK, I do think the book is a
>> > response to the Kennedy assassination. I don't have the New Frontier
>> view
>> > of JFK as much as the Seymour Hersh, Dark Side of Camelot impression.
>> Joe
>> > Kennedy manipulated the mafia, a closer stand-in for the Tristero than
>> the
>> > CIA, and they had many reasons to hate JFK, especially after helping to
>> fix
>> > Illinois and then having RFK as AG going after them full force.
>> >
>> > The speculation of the mob's hand in his assassination has significant
>> > support, and I can see them being lured into the job by a CIA who also
>> > hated Kennedy. Dulles then chaperoning the Warren Commission further
>> > supports that speculation.
>> >
>> > I also think that the Military Industrial Complex's continued rise
>> deeply
>> > impacted Pynchon's writing CoL49, and if the speculation is true that
>> > Kennedy wanted out of Vietnam after his re-election (which I don't
>> > believe), then the MIC would also have it out for him, making their, not
>> > Pierce's connection to Tristero more likely.
>> >
>> > In solidarity,
>> >
>> > James
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> > <
>> https://mail.onelink.me/107872968?pid=nativeplacement&c=Global_Acquisition_YMktg_315_Internal_EmailSignature&af_sub1=Acquisition&af_sub2=Global_YMktg&af_sub3=&af_sub4=100000604&af_sub5=EmailSignature__Static_
>> >
>> >
>> > On Saturday, June 15, 2024, 05:38, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > Peirce does not represent JFK. Period.
>> >
>> > 2) Because Oedipa cannot understand Pierce's "testament", his meanings
>> and
>> > The Trystero needs understaning. As we read, she suspects some kind of
>> > elaborate hidden
>> > plot and The Trystero seems elaborate and mysterious---like good plots
>> do.
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jun 15, 2024 at 4:36 AM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Sat, Jun 15, 2024 at 4:17 AM Michael Bailey <
>> > > michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > 1) Why does Oedipa connect understanding Tristero to finding
>> Meaning in
>> > > > Pierce's testament?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > It’s a very good question. In fact, why does she fuck Metz?  He’s a
>> > little
>> > > bit of a turn-on, but sex (per se) is not her motivation. From the
>> start,
>> > > it is a battle of wits.  But WHY?  It’s almost as if she’s using her
>> new
>> > > “power” as a tool to dig into the “corrupt” world of REAL Estate!
>> (The
>> > > ONLY “real” wealth).
>> > >
>> > > Good question!
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Yes!  BUT!  Are any of these “speculations” suggested anywhere in the
>> > text?
>> > >
>> > > - what if Pierce didn’t leave enough to cover his debts - like that
>> guy
>> > in
>> > > > _A Man in Full_ maybe the whole empire was a house of cards
>> > > > - maybe they are liquidating (selling the stamp collection, eg)
>> > > > - anyway, if that’s the case, maybe she seeks meaning in
>> non-financial
>> > > > terms and follows her liberal arts training to pursue the
>> alternative
>> > > post
>> > > > phenomenon
>> > > > - or, maybe she sees Tristero as a/the wreaker of Pierce’s downfall,
>> > and
>> > > is
>> > > > trying to figure out which of his activities brought on their wrath
>> > > >
>> > > >  - if Pierce represents JFK - but his shtick is totally different -
>> but
>> > > if
>> > > > he somehow does anyway, maybe her efforts are linked to the idea of
>> > > trying
>> > > > to keep the New Frontier vision alive?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > --
>> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> >
>> > >
>> > --
>> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> >
>> >
>> --
>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>
>