CoL49 Chapter 4

[David Morris]

I don’t think there’s any difference between us. Moby Dick is a high
American bar to meet. American does not have to mean parochial.

On Sat, Jun 15, 2024 at 11:49 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:

> If this is a difference between us, I think this and every novel is also
> about America....he is an American novelist...
> and a world-historical novelist overtly in a couple of the novels...
>
> He "lets it [America] unfold", with insightful originality in every
> book.....
>
> On Sat, Jun 15, 2024 at 11:39 AM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Pynchon doesn’t write about current events or politics. He doesn’t even
>> (just barely) write about historic events. His aim is much higher, and
>> deeper and abstract and universal.
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 15, 2024 at 11:08 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think The Crying is about America, with its recent (mostly) historical
>>> baggage, at the time it is set.
>>>
>>> The Trystero goes back in history long before Kennedy's assassination
>>> and I
>>> see no connection myself.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 15, 2024 at 8:53 AM J K Van Nort <jkvannort at yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > "Pierce does not represent JFK. Period."
>>> >
>>> > While I don't think Pierce represents JFK, I do think the book is a
>>> > response to the Kennedy assassination. I don't have the New Frontier
>>> view
>>> > of JFK as much as the Seymour Hersh, Dark Side of Camelot impression.
>>> Joe
>>> > Kennedy manipulated the mafia, a closer stand-in for the Tristero than
>>> the
>>> > CIA, and they had many reasons to hate JFK, especially after helping
>>> to fix
>>> > Illinois and then having RFK as AG going after them full force.
>>> >
>>> > The speculation of the mob's hand in his assassination has significant
>>> > support, and I can see them being lured into the job by a CIA who also
>>> > hated Kennedy. Dulles then chaperoning the Warren Commission further
>>> > supports that speculation.
>>> >
>>> > I also think that the Military Industrial Complex's continued rise
>>> deeply
>>> > impacted Pynchon's writing CoL49, and if the speculation is true that
>>> > Kennedy wanted out of Vietnam after his re-election (which I don't
>>> > believe), then the MIC would also have it out for him, making their,
>>> not
>>> > Pierce's connection to Tristero more likely.
>>> >
>>> > In solidarity,
>>> >
>>> > James
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>> > <
>>> https://mail.onelink.me/107872968?pid=nativeplacement&c=Global_Acquisition_YMktg_315_Internal_EmailSignature&af_sub1=Acquisition&af_sub2=Global_YMktg&af_sub3=&af_sub4=100000604&af_sub5=EmailSignature__Static_
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Saturday, June 15, 2024, 05:38, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Peirce does not represent JFK. Period.
>>> >
>>> > 2) Because Oedipa cannot understand Pierce's "testament", his meanings
>>> and
>>> > The Trystero needs understaning. As we read, she suspects some kind of
>>> > elaborate hidden
>>> > plot and The Trystero seems elaborate and mysterious---like good plots
>>> do.
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Jun 15, 2024 at 4:36 AM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > On Sat, Jun 15, 2024 at 4:17 AM Michael Bailey <
>>> > > michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com>
>>> > > wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > > 1) Why does Oedipa connect understanding Tristero to finding
>>> Meaning in
>>> > > > Pierce's testament?
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > It’s a very good question. In fact, why does she fuck Metz?  He’s a
>>> > little
>>> > > bit of a turn-on, but sex (per se) is not her motivation. From the
>>> start,
>>> > > it is a battle of wits.  But WHY?  It’s almost as if she’s using her
>>> new
>>> > > “power” as a tool to dig into the “corrupt” world of REAL Estate!
>>> (The
>>> > > ONLY “real” wealth).
>>> > >
>>> > > Good question!
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Yes!  BUT!  Are any of these “speculations” suggested anywhere in the
>>> > text?
>>> > >
>>> > > - what if Pierce didn’t leave enough to cover his debts - like that
>>> guy
>>> > in
>>> > > > _A Man in Full_ maybe the whole empire was a house of cards
>>> > > > - maybe they are liquidating (selling the stamp collection, eg)
>>> > > > - anyway, if that’s the case, maybe she seeks meaning in
>>> non-financial
>>> > > > terms and follows her liberal arts training to pursue the
>>> alternative
>>> > > post
>>> > > > phenomenon
>>> > > > - or, maybe she sees Tristero as a/the wreaker of Pierce’s
>>> downfall,
>>> > and
>>> > > is
>>> > > > trying to figure out which of his activities brought on their wrath
>>> > > >
>>> > > >  - if Pierce represents JFK - but his shtick is totally different
>>> - but
>>> > > if
>>> > > > he somehow does anyway, maybe her efforts are linked to the idea of
>>> > > trying
>>> > > > to keep the New Frontier vision alive?
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > --
>>> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > --
>>> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> >
>>> >
>>
>>
>>> --
>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>
>>