Meta stuff

[Joseph Tracy]

> On Sep 28, 2026, at 11:52 PM, Michael Bailey via Pynchon-l <pynchon-l at waste.org> wrote:
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> Joseph wrote:
> 
> Not so sure. In each novel there are real crimes corresponding to the
> actual crimes of that time. The repeated Pynchon narrative that
> uncovering the story behind those crimes, the whodunit and why, leads to
> unresolvable, un prosecutable forces operating above the law is not the
> same as " a reality that has already vanished", not the same as
> inscrutable density of information being the new reality.
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> This aspect of BE & IV in particular is a disappointment baked into noir - "forget it Jake, it's Chinatown" type of thing
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> Or like, Silkwood, right? Real life noir.
>  *
> Noir subverts the paradigm that when the truth is exposed, ideally a bucket brigade forms to carry it to where it's needed: the press, the public, elected representatives, Tinker to Evers to Chance, the cops, the prison system...end result crime stopped & evildoers penitent & reformed
>  *
> Perhaps there's more to Pynchon's version of noir subversion than just saying, nah, that doesn't work here/anymore/against the rich
Probably so , but is it a deeper insight to call it a reality that has already vanished? Is it density of information or straight up criminal collusion that hinders change through investigative discovery of truth? For Maxine and Doc it is just the size of the crimes and the self protective complicity of powerful private and government interests in criminal violence that ends any possible accountability. Both have had some success in apprehending lawbreakers. Both get very close to who and why, and both choose to seek some kind of escape to personal safety.  I would argue that while Pynchon sees little hope in change through investigative exposure of large scale criminality, he still probes at it in a way that is both very serious and very parodic or satiric, knowing that both methods have an appeal and cultural impact. While both Maxine and Doc  move to personal escape and safety, we know that safety is also an illusion. 

>  *VL struggles with that too, inventing Thanatoids to pursue the justice otherwise denied? 
Pretty sure P did not invent the notion of Karmic accountability, or interaction with the ancestors.
>  *
> In BE & IV, it's more like the protagonist finally gets a glimmer of the magnitude of societal problems. Rather than charging immediately into a suicidal dubious battle, Doc & Maxine take some steps to stabilize their own position. Can one blame them?  
Of course I don’t blame them, but I don’t find them as admirable as those, like Palestinian journalists and Doctors, or Gary Webb, or Thomas Massie, Julian Assange,   Sy Hersch,  or Martin King  who risk their lives and careers to speak truth to power. Sometimes hard work and talent and a passion for truth or justice will get you an audience and reward and sometimes it will get you killed. Millions died fighting fascism rather than give in to that future. ST seems like a surreal noirish ride into the all too real present where the Banker’s coup succeeded and the police state regulalry decides who will live and who will die. 
>  *
> Looking at crimes was Doc's and Maxine's career choice
In Maxine’s case we get some insight as to why, same with Frenesi and Prairie and Sasha. 
>  *
> Pynchon chose to be a "creative" (-; so - like Rasselas, on whom he wrote a paper at Cornell - he must know everything.

>  *
> Ergo, insight into society and humor must coexist in his books, along with much else as well. 
I totally agree, and that breadth, intensity  and humor  is what first drew me in when a friend gave me Vineland.  My sense of disagreeement is with the idea that the questions of whodunit and how are just a vehicle for entertainment. For me the value of this particular coin has to do with the weight and rarity of the material and the balance of engaging storytelling and humor…. and on the other face relevant truthfulness, visionary accuracy.    


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