NP Willing Executioners?

[Bekah]

I'm not Otto but I read that book and didn't think much of it. 
First,  his sources included his own thesis.

But more than sources,  he extrapolated some pretty shaky 
generalizations from what he found.   I think he discovered that the 
SS and Nazi police were from every sector of society and that it 
therefore followed that all Germans knew and basically supported what 
was going on.

Well,  I have some right-wing nuts of the Christian variety in my 
family and I'm here to tell you that doesn't represent the 70% of us 
who are Democrat and proud.  Families just don't necessarily agree 
down the line as Goldhagen seemed to assume.

Another book that does essentially the same thing  is  "The End of 
Faith"  by Sam Harris.   He lauds  Goldhagen's book,  condemns all 
Muslims for the beliefs of the few,  and says essentially that  *ALL* 
Christians believe that the Eucharist is  literally drinking the 
blood of Jesus and eating his body.  - Sam Harris says it even more 
crudely.    What he is doing is saying that the moderates, by 
tolerating these beliefs, are a part of the results.  If you tolerate 
Muslims or Christians (to a somewhat lesser extent)  at all,  you're 
not only tolerating,  you're a part of,  the terrorism.

I loathe both books.

Bekah



At 8:16 AM +1000 9/22/05, jbor at bigpond.com wrote:
>Otto, would you care to explain what you believe Goldhagen's 
>argument to be, or what you think the wrong conclusion is?
>
>As I understand it, Goldhagen's thesis is that "ordinary" Germans 
>supported, and in many instances were active and willing accomplices 
>in, the persecution and murder of Jews in Nazi Germany.
>
>best
>
>>Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:18:14 +0200
>>From: Otto <ottosell@[omitted]>
>>To: pynchon-l@[omitted]
>>Subject: Re: NP Willing Executioners?
>>
>>
>>[...]
>>
>>Note that it's not been Goldhagen's original argument. It's just the
>>wrong conclusion some people drew out of it.
>>
>>jbor@[omitted] wrote:
>>
>>>  The argument below, logically extended, would likewise condemn all
>>>  Americans for the atrocities committed (against Native Americans and
>>>  African Americans; in South-East Asia, Iraq, wherever else) by their
>>>  elected American Reichs. Wouldn't it?
>>>
>>>  Not agreeing with the argument, just questioning the logic.
>>>
>>>  best
>>>
>>>
>>>>  From: "Joel Katz" <mittelwerk@[omitted]>
>>>>  To: pynchon-l@[omitted]
>>>>  Subject: Re: exhumed book from nazi slut
>>>>  Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 12:24:19 -0400
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  [...] the goldhagen book of a few years back ('hitler's willing
>>>>  executioners'), as well as common sense, paints a picture of general
>>>>  acquiescence and limited participation among the teutonic populace.
>>>>  also
>>>>  check out klaus thewelheit's two volume 'male fantasies,' on the
>>>>  widespread
>>>>  pop-cultural support for murderous anti-semitism and slavophobia.  so,
>>>>  exceptionalist anecdotes aside, when we speak of nazis of that time we
>>>>  should indeed speak of germans as a whole.  and reserve our pity for
>>>>  those
>>>>  who deserve it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  [...]
>>>>  >
>>>>  >Joel Katz wrote:
>>>>  >
>>>>  >>http://www.villagevoice.com/books/0533,tuhusdubr,66877,10.html
>>>>  >>
>>>>  >>as ben hecht said:  they should have walled in the whole country
>>>>  and let
>>>>  >>them feed on themselves.
>>>>  >
>>>