One of these things is not like the other one

[Robert Mahnke]

I've been in this debate many times but have never had this thought before.
I have a lot of sympathy for the idea that the state ought not be putting
people to death, but perhaps the people who serve on a jury in these
circumstances see it as a decision that has been given to them, not the
state.  Our tradition of trial by jury is very different from that in a lot
of other democracies -- maybe that is a key to the puzzle here?

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 6:27 AM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:

> we all understand the problem will always lay in implementation. my
> point was that its very hard to make a blanket statement yea/nay for
> capital punishment.
> I'm not comfortable with the state having such power but what do you
> do with such people as in the CT case which if you read the details
> leaves one speechless
> and what makes this any different from hanging war criminals
> don't pretend to have any answer but personally the Hayes case leaves
> me doubtful I could ever vote to ban the death penalty
>
> rich
>
> On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 9:02 PM, Michael Bailey
> <michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
> > kneejerk anti-capital-punishment boilerplate (but it needs to be said):
> >
> > no matter what you do to Steven J Hayes, it won't bring back the
> > people he murdered.  All capital punishment does is continue the
> > horrible revenge tradition.
> >
> > Well, that's actually not all it does.  It also reinforces the idea
> > that the State has a right and even a duty to kill people.  Slippery
> > slope.
> >
> >
> >
> >  rich wrote:
> >> and then you have this case. there's always exceptions
> >>
> >> A jury sentenced Steven J. Hayes to death on Monday for his part in a
> >> home invasion in Cheshire, Conn., in which a woman and her two
> >> daughters were killed, in a crime of such incomprehensible savagery
> >> and randomness that the trial upended a debate about capital
> >> punishment. [NYT] The sentencing followed trial that lasted nearly two
> >> months, during which jurors were “exposed to images of depravity and
> >> horror no human being should have to see,” as Judge Jon C. Blue of
> >> State Superior Court said while thanking them. (Also see The New York
> >> Post and The Wall Street Journal.)
> >>
> >> Jurors said that they were in accord about choosing the death penalty
> >> and that their three days of deliberations were spent solemnly
> >> considering when capital punishment can be invoked and wading through
> >> the complex legal questions it entails. Also, the punishment may not
> >> be rendered anytime soon. Mr. Hayes will now enter the appeals process
> >> that follows any death penalty verdict, a legal labyrinth that can
> >> last decades. [NYT]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Robin Landseadel
> >> <robinlandseadel at comcast.net> wrote:
> >>> From "Outside the Beltway"
> >>>
> >>> A Comparative Fact Regarding the Death Penalty that Gives One Pause
> >>> STEVEN L. TAYLOR
> >>>
> >>>        Gallup released a new poll on US attitudes towards the
> >>>        death penalty and unsurprisingly finds that support has
> >>>        remained relatively steady since 2002:  In U.S., 64%
> >>>        Support Death Penalty in Cases of Murder.
> >>>
> >>>        What struck me was the following observation:
> >>>        The use of the death penalty has been declining worldwide,
> >>>        with most of the known executions now carried out in five
> >>>        countries — China, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and the United
> >>>        States.
> >>>
> >>>        When dealing with issues of justice and human rights, that
> >>>        isn’t exactly the company I would think that the US would
> >>>        aspire to keep.  We are talking about three authoritarian
> >>>        regimes with questionable human rights records (China,
> >>>        Iran and Saudi Arabia), a pseudodemocracy in the context
> >>>        of an ongoing conflict (Iraq), and the country that sees itself
> >>>        as a beacon of liberty and democracy (the US).  One of
> >>>        these things is, theoretically, not like the others.  At a
> >>>        minimum this comparison ought to give us all pause for
> >>>        thought.
> >>>
> >>> http://tinyurl.com/23oglwb
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "Such regulations may, no doubt, be considered as in some respects a
> > violation of natural liberty. But those exertions of the natural
> > liberty of a few individuals, which might endanger the security of the
> > whole society, are, and ought to be, restrained by the laws of all
> > governments, of the most free as well as of the most despotical." -
> > Adam Smith
> >
>
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