Back to AtD Cyprian again

[Ian Livingston]

Agreed, Cyprian does not lose sexuality, he emerges androgynous to his new
vocation.

On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 8:46 AM, Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>wrote:

>  On 7/22/2012 10:31 AM, Ian Livingston wrote:
>
> Eh? Yeah. Makes sense. I was forgetting the setting of the scene. Having
> just unpacked my Burke and been drawn into reading a few paragraphs, I
> might have thought to apply his careful system here. Which, I think, would
> support this reading. Even so, I'd have to wonder about the larger
> resonances of the scene as apostrophe. Just because it's Pynchon and he
> does that sort of thing now and then. Well, and because I like to see such.
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> Yes and east of there is the Balkans, to which Cyprian vowed never to
> return. I'm assuming this isn't a first reading for anyone, but if is skip
> down to avoid a possible spoiler
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> The seemingly-inseparable four DO return, and Cyprian decides to stay on
> as a nun at the Covent in Thrace.  I wondered a second if his decision was
> connected to his resignation to the fact that he was loosing his sexual
> attractiveness, but quickly decided there was little if any connection.
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> P
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> On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>  First I decided to ask myself where Cyprian was? Although he is
>> speaking of The Balkan Peninsula here, he is talking to Ratty
>> and he may still be in Ys-les Bain, yes? "Hidden near the foothills of
>> the Pyrenees", which, double-checking a map shows that WW 1 begins (and is
>> largely fought) East of there. Invasion of Bosnia starts it and
>> more........
>>
>>     *From:* Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
>> *To:* Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
>> *Cc:* pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>  *Sent:* Saturday, July 21, 2012 6:03 PM
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: Back to AtD Cyprian again
>>
>> Sorta combining the two, given Cyprian's fate and all: if the Communist
>> rebellion can be thought of as atheistic (following Feuerbach, as Marx
>> does, one might call the projected deity atheistic), could that be that
>> which is to feared by such as Cyprian? Is it his fate to station himself at
>> the last outpost of devotion to the mystery?
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>  First para sez well stuff on my mind....
>>
>> But, reading further after "relaxing into his fate' shows equanimity, I
>> think....acceptance of getting older, of no longer desiring the young,
>> etc....
>>
>>    *From:* Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
>> *To:* Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
>> *Cc:* pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, July 21, 2012 4:28 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: Back to AtD Cyprian again
>>
>>  I remember being a little inclined to caution on reading this. Not
>> always one of my more prominent characteristics. What IS in the east? The
>> Great War in Europe was not an Eastern thing, really, as I understand it,
>> but the mortal spasm of the Empire succumbing to the triumph of capitalism,
>> and all very European from start to finish (counting the US as essentially
>> European on another continent, and an ally of the European capitalist
>> class.) The war in the East was different. That was two great empires in
>> extremis struggling for renewed footing, room to expand, and all that fun
>> stuff. The only thing "building" in the east was the communist rebellion in
>> Russia.
>>
>>  Equanimity is central to Buddhism. Is Cyprian's relaxation into fate an
>> expression of equanimity, or is it fatalistic? The two can be very
>> different. Hm. How close am I re-reading AtD?
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>  p. 939 "only some form of madness would take anyone east, right now.
>> into the jaws
>> of what's almost certainly on the move out there."
>> What is he alluding to? the Repressed returning? War?, the Building-up?
>> The Force of They?
>>
>> Lower down on 939:
>> "Cyprian had begun to 'relax into his fate' "
>> What means this? Nietzsche is one who is famous for the concept of
>> accepting--loving, embracing-- one's fate. Amor Fati.
>> Nabokov is another, along with some ancient Greek dramatists and
>> This bracketed phrase in AtD does not show up except in Pynchon (and one
>> unknown writer)'s allusion.
>> Does Pynchon even give Nietzsche's concept a laid-back framing? Wiki
>> calls Cyprian's response Buddhist.
>>
>> Has Cyprian gone beyond (society's) good and evil Nietzsche-like. Is that
>> where Buddhism lies?
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>>
>>  --
>> "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
>> creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the trust
>> in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments of darkness
>> groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates than the simplest
>> urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>> "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
>> creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the trust
>> in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments of darkness
>> groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates than the simplest
>> urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>  --
> "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all creeds
> the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the trust in
> reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments of darkness
> groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates than the simplest
> urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
>
>
>


-- 
"Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all creeds
the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the trust in
reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments of darkness
groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates than the simplest
urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
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