Back to AtD Cyprian again

[Ian Livingston]

So, are we looking at a moral compass here?


On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:

> So, here's a more generalized probably stupid observation/question. East
> augers bad shit in a number of later
> Pynchon works, just as North is cold, dead, less fit for humans.....South:
> tropics, warmth, bananas, beaches
> is good and in AtD especially and Inherent Vice by setting, West is good,
> akin to South.
>
> Could this be a pattern? Why was the Anarchist Enclave west? We might know
> why it was 'at the foothills of
> the Pyrnees as a trope......
>
>   *From:* Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>
> *To:* pynchon-l at waste.org
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 22, 2012 11:46 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Back to AtD Cyprian again
>
>  On 7/22/2012 10:31 AM, Ian Livingston wrote:
>
> Eh? Yeah. Makes sense. I was forgetting the setting of the scene. Having
> just unpacked my Burke and been drawn into reading a few paragraphs, I
> might have thought to apply his careful system here. Which, I think, would
> support this reading. Even so, I'd have to wonder about the larger
> resonances of the scene as apostrophe. Just because it's Pynchon and he
> does that sort of thing now and then. Well, and because I like to see such.
>
>
>
> Yes and east of there is the Balkans, to which Cyprian vowed never to
> return. I'm assuming this isn't a first reading for anyone, but if is skip
> down to avoid a possible spoiler
>
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> The seemingly-inseparable four DO return, and Cyprian decides to stay on
> as a nun at the Covent in Thrace.  I wondered a second if his decision was
> connected to his resignation to the fact that he was loosing his sexual
> attractiveness, but quickly decided there was little if any connection.
>
> P
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>  First I decided to ask myself where Cyprian was? Although he is speaking
> of The Balkan Peninsula here, he is talking to Ratty
> and he may still be in Ys-les Bain, yes? "Hidden near the foothills of the
> Pyrenees", which, double-checking a map shows that WW 1 begins (and is
> largely fought) East of there. Invasion of Bosnia starts it and
> more........
>
>   *From:* Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
> *To:* Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 21, 2012 6:03 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Back to AtD Cyprian again
>
> Sorta combining the two, given Cyprian's fate and all: if the Communist
> rebellion can be thought of as atheistic (following Feuerbach, as Marx
> does, one might call the projected deity atheistic), could that be that
> which is to feared by such as Cyprian? Is it his fate to station himself at
> the last outpost of devotion to the mystery?
>
> On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>  First para sez well stuff on my mind....
>
> But, reading further after "relaxing into his fate' shows equanimity, I
> think....acceptance of getting older, of no longer desiring the young,
> etc....
>
>   *From:* Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
> *To:* Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 21, 2012 4:28 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Back to AtD Cyprian again
>
>  I remember being a little inclined to caution on reading this. Not
> always one of my more prominent characteristics. What IS in the east? The
> Great War in Europe was not an Eastern thing, really, as I understand it,
> but the mortal spasm of the Empire succumbing to the triumph of capitalism,
> and all very European from start to finish (counting the US as essentially
> European on another continent, and an ally of the European capitalist
> class.) The war in the East was different. That was two great empires in
> extremis struggling for renewed footing, room to expand, and all that fun
> stuff. The only thing "building" in the east was the communist rebellion in
> Russia.
>
> Equanimity is central to Buddhism. Is Cyprian's relaxation into fate an
> expression of equanimity, or is it fatalistic? The two can be very
> different. Hm. How close am I re-reading AtD?
>
> On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>  p. 939 "only some form of madness would take anyone east, right now.
> into the jaws
> of what's almost certainly on the move out there."
> What is he alluding to? the Repressed returning? War?, the Building-up?
> The Force of They?
>
> Lower down on 939:
> "Cyprian had begun to 'relax into his fate' "
> What means this? Nietzsche is one who is famous for the concept of
> accepting--loving, embracing-- one's fate. Amor Fati.
> Nabokov is another, along with some ancient Greek dramatists and
> This bracketed phrase in AtD does not show up except in Pynchon (and one
> unknown writer)'s allusion.
> Does Pynchon even give Nietzsche's concept a laid-back framing? Wiki calls
> Cyprian's response Buddhist.
>
> Has Cyprian gone beyond (society's) good and evil Nietzsche-like. Is that
> where Buddhism lies?
>
>
>
>
> --
> "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all creeds
> the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the trust in
> reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments of darkness
> groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates than the simplest
> urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all creeds
> the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the trust in
> reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments of darkness
> groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates than the simplest
> urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all creeds
> the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the trust in
> reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments of darkness
> groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates than the simplest
> urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
"Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all creeds
the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the trust in
reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments of darkness
groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates than the simplest
urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
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