Thich Nhat Hagn's "Fear"

[Ian Livingston]

I don't know, Keith. That's always been a tough one to answer for me. I
suppose the dialectic between fear and desire has produced an effect of
love and loathing it's tough to condemn, hard to endorse.


On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:46 AM, Keith Davis <kbob42 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Nisargadatta Maharaj says something like, if you really had a choice,
> would you have chosen to be born into this life?
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Monte Davis <montedavis at verizon.net>wrote:
>
>> Oh, it’s downhill well before that. Samuel Beckett in a 1970 interview:
>> “Even before the foetus can draw breath it is in a state of barrenness and
>> of pain. I have a clear memory of my own foetal existence. It was an
>> existence where no voice, no possible movement could free me from the agony
>> and darkness I was subjected to.”****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> And in _*Murphy*_, Neary curses the day he was born “and then, in a bold
>> flashback, the night he was conceived.”****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* owner-pynchon-l at waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l at waste.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *David Morris
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 29, 2013 11:51 AM
>> *To:* Ian Livingston
>> *Cc:* Keith Davis; P-list
>> *Subject:* Re: Thich Nhat Hagn's "Fear"****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Yes. That is a clear way of explaining the root experience and its later
>> recognition/identification.
>>
>>
>> On Monday, July 29, 2013, Ian Livingston wrote:****
>>
>> Maybe the way to reconcile your perspectives, which both seem valid, is
>> to remove the labels. Birth is the first appearance the emotional sensation
>> that is later associated with fear, coupled with the sensation of emotional
>> resistance to that proto-fear that is later identified as desire.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 7:39 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>> ****
>>
>> Sure.  But birth is a stark initial lesson in separateness, even if the
>> "self" hasn't yet formed. And I think initial experiencing the sensation of
>> fear and desire is TNH's focus, something that precedes a self.****
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, July 29, 2013, Keith Davis wrote:****
>>
>> The only clarification might be that there is no consciousness of the
>> fear and desire until we reach the point where we become aware of a"self"
>> as separate from other "selves", where we develop an "individual
>> consciousness". ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 1:13 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> It starts with a description of each of us pre-birth in the "The Palace
>> of the Child." Everything we needed was done for us there.  Food, air,
>> warmth, in a big water cushioned bed, with great sound insulation.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Then we get pushed out into the loud cold world, having to cough out
>> liquid in order to take our own first breath.  Every aspect of this birth
>> is traumatic, and TNH says it is called the "Original Fear."  At about this
>> same moment we realize we want to keep living.  TNH calls this "Original
>> Desire."****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I think this was all pre Freud.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> David Morris****
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> www.innergroovemusic.com ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>
>
>
> --
> www.innergroovemusic.com
>
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