Thich Nhat Hagn's "Fear"

[Bekah]

You bet -  for one sweet sunset,  one loaf of bread, cheese, wine and thou - for long walks over gentle hills -  and slow Sunday mornings with coffee and the Times.  

bek

On Jul 29, 2013, at 10:46 AM, Keith Davis <kbob42 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Nisargadatta Maharaj says something like, if you really had a choice, would you have chosen to be born into this life?
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> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Monte Davis <montedavis at verizon.net> wrote:
> Oh, it’s downhill well before that. Samuel Beckett in a 1970 interview: “Even before the foetus can draw breath it is in a state of barrenness and of pain. I have a clear memory of my own foetal existence. It was an existence where no voice, no possible movement could free me from the agony and darkness I was subjected to.”
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> And in _Murphy_, Neary curses the day he was born “and then, in a bold flashback, the night he was conceived.”
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> From: owner-pynchon-l at waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l at waste.org] On Behalf Of David Morris
> Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 11:51 AM
> To: Ian Livingston
> Cc: Keith Davis; P-list
> Subject: Re: Thich Nhat Hagn's "Fear"
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> Yes. That is a clear way of explaining the root experience and its later recognition/identification.
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> On Monday, July 29, 2013, Ian Livingston wrote:
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> Maybe the way to reconcile your perspectives, which both seem valid, is to remove the labels. Birth is the first appearance the emotional sensation that is later associated with fear, coupled with the sensation of emotional resistance to that proto-fear that is later identified as desire.
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> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 7:39 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
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> Sure.  But birth is a stark initial lesson in separateness, even if the "self" hasn't yet formed. And I think initial experiencing the sensation of fear and desire is TNH's focus, something that precedes a self.
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> On Monday, July 29, 2013, Keith Davis wrote:
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> The only clarification might be that there is no consciousness of the fear and desire until we reach the point where we become aware of a"self" as separate from other "selves", where we develop an "individual consciousness".
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> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 1:13 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
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> It starts with a description of each of us pre-birth in the "The Palace of the Child." Everything we needed was done for us there.  Food, air, warmth, in a big water cushioned bed, with great sound insulation.
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> Then we get pushed out into the loud cold world, having to cough out liquid in order to take our own first breath.  Every aspect of this birth is traumatic, and TNH says it is called the "Original Fear."  At about this same moment we realize we want to keep living.  TNH calls this "Original Desire."
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> I think this was all pre Freud.
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> David Morris
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