Pynchon knows this, I say. Sorta always known.

[alice wellintown]

Science and thus the scientist is essential, is indispensable to the
villainous acts, the evil we have seen in the 20th and 21st century.
Of course there are connections. But when we define the connections,
clearly, honestly, we see that science has been and is instrumental, has
been an essential element, in holocaust, in genocide, in war, in evil.
Science can't wash it hands of these crimes. While no one would attempt to
defend generals, businessmen, politicians, scientists take exception, make
excuses for the evil that science has been an integral part of, for the
evil deeds of scientists. While it would anger nearly everyone in the USA,
were they to learn that the government protected and defended, even
supported, a Nazi politician or general or businessman, the Nazi Scientists
are given special treatment. Von Braun is but one example. Why? Well,
because the Sciences are defining the fundamental ways in which we
experience the world by defining the world as we experience it. This is
quite a powerful position to extend to any group in a society. As the
saying goes, power corrupts. And, although science is quick to put on the
cloak of theory, to shield itself from claims to absolutes, for they know
that power and absolutes exposé them to claims of corruption, to claims
that science is against life, to accusations of gnostic death dreams (the
causal and causation is embodied in Blicero), it continues to divide nature
from human endeavors and it refuses to accept the limits of its reach.
Science smashes atoms and makes big data virtual tours of space for
voyeurs, because it can not abide a mystery, magic, or the man who makes a
house of nature with an extension of his hand.

Today, I worship the hammer.

On Sunday, June 2, 2013, Monte Davis wrote:

> "taking responsibility for both the good stuff and bad stuff you do" -- I'm
> down with that.
>
> It's what you mean from moment to moment by "you" that I can't get my head
> around. Sometimes the villainous agent or agency is science, sometimes it's
> technology (not the same, and much older than science), sometimes it's
> industrialization per se, sometimes it's industrial capitalism, sometimes
> it's the global scaling-up with population of our species' ecological
> footprint.
>
> Are there many connections -- both causal and corollary -- among all these?
> Yes.  Are they one and the same Big Bad Thing? No. I'm well aware that I'm
> doing that analytical/dissective approach you reject... but if yours is as
> coherent as holism gets, I think I'll pass.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pynchon-l at waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l at waste.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Joseph Tracy
> Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2013 2:20 PM
> To: P-list List
> Subject: Re: Pynchon knows this, I say. Sorta always known.
>
> Bullshit. I don't support, believe in or advocate Luddism though I don't
> particularly despise those with  true and sincere distrust of technology or
> tribal peoples who don't want to adopt the technologies and science of the
> modern world. I do advocate taking responsibility for both the good stuff
> and bad stuff you do.  I advocate technologies  and science that don't
> require theft and destruction. I advocate methods that are bio-spherically
> respectful and sustainable.
> On Jun 1, 2013, at 12:16 AM, David Morris wrote:
>
> > You essentially advocate Luddism.  I think Tea Party, stupid party,
> fearful and reactionary.  I really hope TRP isn't that dumb.
> >
> > Dr. Mengele looks a lot like TRP:
> > http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Mengele
> >
> > Maybe he feels the Dr's guilt.
> >
> > David Morris
> >
> > On Friday, May 31, 2013, Joseph Tracy wrote:
> >  But scientists and technologists are not merely adjuncts to bad
> political
> pressures, they sometimes lead the way into ethically abusive terrain, atom
> & then hydrogen bombs, nuclear power plants sited on unstable terrain(
> Fukushima) with approval of scientists, medical scientists came up with the
> things like the Tuskeegee syphilis experiments, US military experiments
> exposing people to radioactive materials, MK Ultra's experiments using
> drugs, sensory deprivation and torture on unwitting Canadians. The Nazi
> "medical" experiments were often as "scientific" as current experiments on
> rats.  The  pragmatic, for some more than others, philosophy  of
> "Scientific
> advancement " demands that materials be mined and provided cheaply no
> matter
> the human and eco costs. Science and the products generated by science
> demand access to the materials and cannot ask for a free pass.
> >
> > Sometimes scientists provide the disease and then the cure as in DDT,
> > HFCs ,phthalates, and Thalidimide. With global warming there may be no
> > cure
> >
> >  You want to say these things are entirely political, but politicians do
> not make dioxins or PCBs, do not figure out how to mine with mercury, are
> not the inventors of fossil fuel technologies or new plastics and other
> products  and techniques that poison the waters and soils.. The presumption
> that all the questions and difficulties we face are neatly divisible in
> such
> a way as to absolve  scientists and the  scientific method is not an idea
> to
> which I will be genuflecting.  The science we inherit  has relied heavily
> on
> analysis through dissection, dissolution, explosion and the reduction of
> all
> things to the observable component parts. This has been a mindset with some
> very dark consequences because life, and the only reality humans can
> actually experience is interactive, conscious, interdependent and more than
> the sum of parts or rules. There is no rule by which things desire to live,
> and no methodology of science has ever produced a living reproductive
> organism. Once again as in the original article there is a large gap
> between
> what  science claims  to know and what can be demonstrated by experiment.
> Scientific practice is not  able to be isolated as some pure and benign
> pursuit. It has been heavily fueled throughout history by war and greed and
> has itself fueled war, injustice and avarice.  Some of this comes out with
> heart-rending intensity in Mason and Dixon, Gravity's Rainbow, and Against
> the Day.. Equally so in The Metaphysical Club, Frankenstein, A Brave New
> World.
> >
> >
> > On May 30, 2013, at 10:44 PM, David Morris wrote:
> >
> > > Good point.
> > > But your beef is entirely political.  It has nothing to do with science
> or philosophy, except beyond their application in politics.
> > > In the US 3rd parties are almost lays losers.  You seem to be
> advocating
> a allegiance of scientist as a political voice.  And Amen!
> > > But that goal isn't about science or philosophy.  It's about
> pragmatics.
> > >
> > > David Morris
> > >
> > > On Thursday, May 30, 2013, Joseph Tracy wrote:
> > > No.  I
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