GR translation: This smile asks from him more grace than...

[David Payne]

Depends on how you look at it. 

On the one hand, my definition was "faked/forced politeness". No ouroborus there.

On the other hand, "grace" appears exactly 564 times on this page in the OED online.

On the third hand, if you strip down the OED online definitions I quoted, "grace" only appears once, and I think that this single appearance points to the ironic use of the term I mentioned:

* I.1.b. In a weaker sense: Seemliness, becomingness, favourable or creditable aspect.

* I.2.c. A procedure, attitude, etc. adopted with a view to grace.

I think that I.2.c. is the right definition here, and I think that it doesn't circle back on itself; instead it points back to a different meaning of the term "grace" (i.e., the traditional sense of internal, inherent angelic qualities), suggesting fake/forced politeness.

If anyone else thinks I wrong, please speak up, because this seems like a key passage and I'm not at all sure that I correct in the way that I'm attempting to push forward Jochen's response.

________________________________
> Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 22:52:51 -0600 
> Subject: RE: GR translation: This smile asks from him more grace than... 
> From: irissiriustce at gmail.com 
> To: dpayne1912 at hotmail.com 
> CC: pynchon-l at waste.org 
> 
> 
> Mr. Payne, surely yourdictionary quote used the word "grace" fivive 
> fuckicking tim es to define Grace? 
> 
> This madness hass....toooooo....stop! 
> 
> you cant say I am bacause I am.. Within three words it circularizes on 
> itself. 
> 
> On Mar 4, 2013 10:30 PM, "David Payne" 
> <dpayne1912 at hotmail.com<mailto:dpayne1912 at hotmail.com>> wrote: 
> 
> That's from the same page as the "Proverbs for Paranoids, 3" -- and 
> this seems like a key passage. 
> 
> It's a confusing sentence with all the "his/him"s. 
> 
> I take grace to mean faked/forced politeness here, which would be a bit 
> ironic because "grace" is supposed to be a natural characteristic. I 
> could be totally wrong about that because, as I said, I find the 
> sentence confusing. 
> 
> Anyhow, I'm looking at the OED online definition for: 
> 
> grace, n., I. Pleasing quality, gracefulness ... 2.c. A procedure, 
> attitude, etc. adopted with a view to grace. Obs. exc. in airs and 
> graces, affectations of elegance of manners. 
> 
> Although this would seem to fit just as well: 
> 
> grace, n., I. Pleasing quality, gracefulness ... 1.b. In a weaker 
> sense: Seemliness, becomingness, favourable or creditable aspect. 
> Chiefly in a good grace ; hence a bad grace , an ill grace , an 
> unbecoming appearance. Now somewhat rare (cf. cc). 
> 
> Don't take it from me, though! I'm just hoping to throw something out 
> that someone with better understanding can react to. 
> 
> Thanks for posing these questions, Mike. I enjoy this close reading. 
> 
> ---------------------------------------- 
> > Date: Mon, Mar 013 1::2::8 +100< 
> > Subject: Re: GR translation: This smile asks from him more grace than... 
> > From: jstremmel at gmail.com<mailto:jstremmel at gmail.com> 
> > To: gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com<mailto:gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com> 
> > CC: pynchon-l at waste.org<mailto:pynchon-l at waste.org> 
> > 
> > Gracefulness, I think. 
> > 
> > 013//// Mike Jing 
> <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com<mailto:gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>>: 
> > > P56..1--7 “Glad to hear it.” Slothrop is smiling. You’re on my list too, 
> > > pal. This smile asks from him more grace than anything in his languid 
> > > American life ever has, up till now. Grace he always imagined 
> himself short 
> > > on. But it’s working. He’s surprised, and so grateful that he 
> almost starts 
> > > crying then. The best part of all is not that Bounce appears fooled 
> by the 
> > > smile, but that Slothrop knows now that it will work for him again. . . . 
> > > 
> > > I find the word "grace" a little difficult to translate. what is the 
> > > primary meaning here? 
> > > 
>