Ukraine Rebel Leader: Malaysian Plane was Full of Already Dead Bodies

Tue Jul 29 15:11:44 CDT 2014

http://www.eurasiareview.com/18072014-russian-pipeline-india-analysis/

On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 4:09 PM, alice malice <alicewmalice at gmail.com> wrote:
> TAPI gas pipeline making steady progress
>
> http://www.ogj.com/articles/print/volume-112/issue-7/general-interest/adb-tapi-gas-pipeline-making-steady-progress.html
>
> On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 4:04 PM, alice malice <alicewmalice at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Now everybody get a grip on reality...
>>
>> What is the cause of all that paranoia in energy poor Europe? Germany,
>> the engineer and engine of the Euro Economy is at the wheel now and
>> has to make some tough decisions it hasn't got the political guts to
>> make.  The Pivot? What pivot? China? What China? India? Oh yes the gas
>> pipeline to India. Yeah, that will pay for the wars and all that. The
>> US will finally get control of the gas and force Europe to her knees.
>> Jeeeez. Get a grip.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 11:51 AM,  <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>> Thomas Eckhardt: "Frankly, I am feeling like I am sitting in a hijacked airplane and everybody else says, naaah,
>>> this is the route we were always supposed to take."
>>>
>>> I'm sitting, white-knuckled, right behind you. Now everybody --
>>>
>>> Laura
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Thomas Eckhardt <thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de>
>>>>Sent: Jul 28, 2014 6:11 PM
>>>>To: David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>, "kelber at mindspring.com" <kelber at mindspring.com>
>>>>Cc: "pynchon-l at waste.org" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>>>Subject: Re: Ukraine Rebel Leader: Malaysian Plane was Full of Already Dead Bodies
>>>>
>>>>Am 22.07.2014 21:03, schrieb David Morris:
>>>>
>>>>> As I said in my post re. Zerohedge: "If any of this is true, things will
>>>>> shake out very fast now. Let's just wait and see."
>>>>
>>>>Russia has presented evidence concerning the downing of MH-17 in a
>>>>global press conference, officially and on the record.
>>>>
>>>>Details of the Russian statements may be found at Zerohedge, of course
>>>>at RT, but also here:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/25/mh17-sacrificed-airliner/
>>>>
>>>>The WSJ via Counterpunch:
>>>>
>>>>"Russia’s Defense Ministry on Monday presented its first detailed
>>>>account of the final moments of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, saying
>>>>Russian radar had spotted a second aircraft in the vicinity shortly
>>>>before the crash and that satellite imagery showed Ukraine had moved
>>>>missile systems into the area before the incident.
>>>>
>>>>(...)
>>>>
>>>>In an elaborate presentation displaying radar and satellite imagery, Mr.
>>>>Makushev said it was likely that the second airplane was a Ukrainian
>>>>fighter jet. He also showed satellite photos allegedly portraying
>>>>several Buk ground-to-air missile systems in the area close to where the
>>>>plane crashed. The systems, he said, could only belong to the Ukrainian
>>>>military. Ukraine has accused Russia of giving the rebels a Buk system,
>>>>with which they then shot down the passenger jet.
>>>>
>>>>Mr. Makushev said the airplane deviated from its course by 14
>>>>kilometers, but then attempted to return to its course, before crashing
>>>>shortly after.
>>>>
>>>>He said Russia is prepared to hand all of the information it has to
>>>>European authorities, which included satellite imagery and data from its
>>>>own radars.”
>>>>
>>>>Note how careful the Russians try to avoid conclusions. They have posed
>>>>ten questions to the Ukrainian government in the spirit of cooperation
>>>>-- or so they say.
>>>>
>>>>Of course, Russia may be lying in order to avert blame from the rebels.
>>>>
>>>>In this case, one should expect an immediate rebuttal based on evidence
>>>>at least as good as the one presented. It is inconceivable that the U.S.
>>>>government does not know what happened and does not have the records to
>>>>prove it.
>>>>
>>>>Russia has asked the U.S. government to publish the data they have.
>>>>
>>>>The U.S. government has stated that it has "strong confidence" in its
>>>>own version that the missile was launched in territory held by the
>>>>rebels. It has stated that it can neither confirm nor deny that there
>>>>was a Ukrainian military plane in the vicinity of the airliner. As
>>>>evidence it referred to social media and "classified information."
>>>>
>>>>This is very embarrassing:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2014/07/229681.htm#UKRAINE
>>>>
>>>>What this means is that very likely there was a Ukrainian fighter plane
>>>>in the vicinity of the airliner when it was shot down.
>>>>
>>>>Meanwhile the Ukrainian security service SBU has "confiscated recordings
>>>>of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the
>>>>crew of the doomed airliner (...)"
>>>>
>>>>This would be important with regard to the alleged deviation of the plane.
>>>>
>>>>http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28360784
>>>>
>>>>The Kiev army/national guard, despite Poroshenko having announced a
>>>>ceasefire in a 40km radius around the crash site in order to allow for
>>>>independent investigations, desperately tries to get control of the site
>>>>and has publicly stated to do just that. The heavy fighting, of course,
>>>>makes it impossible for Dutch and Australian investigators to investigate.
>>>>
>>>>-- A few days before that the following dialogue ensued:
>>>>
>>>>"QUESTION: Okay. Are you concerned that a break in ceasefire could
>>>>impede the investigation?
>>>>
>>>>MS. HARF: Well, obviously, we would be concerned about the separatists
>>>>not upholding a ceasefire. The Ukrainians have repeatedly shown their
>>>>willingness and ability to do so."
>>>>
>>>>http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2014/07/229681.htm#UKRAINE --
>>>>
>>>>There is a report by the BBC from the crash site which has supposedly
>>>>been deleted. Eye witnesses claim to have seen fighter jets near the
>>>>Malaysian airliner:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUvK5m2vxro
>>>>
>>>>Etc. pp. Draw your own conclusions.
>>>>
>>>>It may be only my impression but it seems that interest in who actually
>>>>pulled the trigger has gone down significantly since Russia's press
>>>>conference. Also, the Ukrainian attacks on the rebels holding the crash
>>>>site do not seem to be as interesting as whether rebels at the site were
>>>>drunk.
>>>>
>>>>All of this doesn't matter. It doesn't even merit serious debate. The
>>>>narrative has been set: It was "Putin's missile". Accordingly, the
>>>>"facts are being fixed around the policy" and the reality-based
>>>>community will be left to study just what history's actors do.
>>>>
>>>>It's the same in Germany.
>>>>
>>>>Frankly, I am feeling like I am sitting in a hijacked airplane and
>>>>everybody else says, naaah, this is the route we were always supposed to
>>>>take.
>>>>
>>>>Thomas
>>>>-
>>>>Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>
>>> -
>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
-
Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l