What happens to a conspiracy revealed?

[David Morris]

I hear English speakers in Quebec only put up with their oppressed lot
because of the healthcare system...

On Thursday, March 13, 2014, <malignd at aol.com> wrote:

> Give an example.  We would go into, say, Mexico, and annex some portion of
> it that is English speaking?
>
> The Russian actions in the Crimea are exactly what the US would do in
> similar circumstances.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','brook7 at sover.net');>
> >
> To: P-list List <pynchon-l at waste.org<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','pynchon-l at waste.org');>
> >
> Sent: Thu, Mar 13, 2014 3:37 pm
> Subject: Re: What happens to a conspiracy revealed?
>
>  Snyder shows one side of the picture and i really believe it is true to many
> Ukrainians. Yanukovich was a greedy asshole.  But there were also killings of
> police, hardcore anti-semitism, the overthrow of an elected government and an
> unwillingness to negotiate a transition despite the closeness of the next
> elections. When you pursue the overthrow of a government, even one elected by
> majority vote, there is no place including the US where you will not find
> violent resistance by the authorities.  I have tried to listen to all sides of a
> story in a place that I don't know much about. What I have a hard time with is
> the US choosing a less than wildly popular central banker to be the "interim
> prime minister" . And I am skeptical that it was a truly democratic process  to
> endorse him. I hope for the best for a real revolution that makes a better
> society.  The Russian actions in the Crimea are exactly what the US would do in
> similar circumstances. They have been careful to avoid unneeded violence.  I
> think accepting this division is realistic and relatively harmless.  I predict
> it will stand with the approval of the Crimean majority and be inconsequential.
> I don't think Ukraine will have solved its problems by joining the EU if they do
> so. Happy to be wrong about that.
>
> As to his last question the US was as diverse a population as anywhere on the
> planet at the time of the revolution though it was clearly led by millionaire
> merchants, land speculators etc. the soldiers were quite diverse as was the case
> in South American revolutions.  For me the question is more whether the
> revolutionaries represent a consensus of Ukrainians. I simply don't know and
> don't feel much effort has been made to really answer that question in an open
> honest way.
>
>
> On Mar 13, 2014, at 1:38 PM, rich wrote:
>
> > passion is one thing. Here's Timothy Snyder on the uprising in Ukraine
> >
> > http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2014/mar/01/ukraine-haze-propaganda/
> >
> > 'In December the crowds grew larger. By the end of the year, millions of
> people had taken part in protests, all over the country. Journalists  were
> beaten. Individual activists were abducted. Some of them were tortured. Dozens
> disappeared and have not yet been found. As the New Year began the protests
> broadened. Muslims from southern Ukraine marched in large numbers.
> Representatives of the large Kiev Jewish community were prominently represented.
> Some of the most important organizers were Jews. The telephone hotline that
> people called to seek missing relatives was established by gay activists (people
> who have experience with hotlines). Some of the hospital guards who tried to
> stop the police from abducting the wounded were young feminists. '
> >
> > 'Who was killed? Dozens of people, in all about a hundred, most of them young
> men. Bohdan Solchanyk was a young lecturer at the Ukrainian Catholic University,
> a Ukrainian speaker from western Ukraine. He was shot and killed. Yevhen Kotlyov
> was an environmentalist from Kharkiv, a Russian speaker from eastern Ukraine. He
> was shot and killed. One of the people killed was a Russian citizen; a number of
> Russians had come to fight--most of them anarchists who had come to aid their
> Ukrainian anarchist comrades. At least two of those killed by the regime, and
> perhaps more, were Jews. One of those "Afghans," Ukrainian veterans of the Red
> Army's war in Afghanistan, was Jewish: Alexander Scherbatyuk. He was shot and
> killed by a sniper. Another of those killed was a Pole, a member of Ukraine's
> Polish minority.
> >
> > Has it ever before happened that people associated with Ukrainian, Russian,
> Belarusian, Armenian, Polish, and Jewish culture have died in a revolution that
> was started by a Muslim? Can we who pride ourselves in our diversity and
> tolerance think of anything remotely similar in our own histories?'
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 1:26 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
> > For the record, I appreciate both the tone and content of Joseph's post.
> Passionate and coherent, without a hint of snarkiness.
> >
> > Laura
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > >From: Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
> > >Sent: Mar 13, 2014 12:36 PM
> > >To: P-list List <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> > >Subject: Re: What happens to a conspiracy revealed?
> > >
> > >OK, I may be an outawork preacher, but I got no Kingdom, no ism, nothin but
> snakes and holy ghosts and pictures in slow light.
> > >On Mar 13, 2014, at 1:36 AM, David Morris wrote:
> > >
> > >> And I don't disagree with
> >
>
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>
>
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