Men Explain Lolita To Me

[Mark Kohut]

Well, now we knew where our difference lies.
She is also real (within the reality of the book), which does not take
place just in HH's head.

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 5:50 AM, Ray Easton
<raymond.lee.easton at gmail.com> wrote:
> But there is no "Lolita herself" -- only HH's construct, his creature.
>
> [ I am not containing because I think we are going to reach agreement,  but
> because I find it an interesting exchange. :-) ]
>
> Ray
>
> Sent with AquaMail for Android
> http://www.aqua-mail.com
>
>
> On December 18, 2015 4:38:05 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think to stop at calling it " about obsession" is to leave out essential
>> details, such as LOLITA ( mostly) herself and her ' meanings' by the end of
>> the book.
>> But, as I said, we differ it seems.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Dec 18, 2015, at 5:31 AM, Ray Easton <raymond.lee.easton at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I should also have said:
>>>
>>> Lolita is *profoundly* amoral.  It's amorality is central to it,
>>> critical to what it is about.
>>>
>>> Ray
>>>
>>> Sent with AquaMail for Android
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>>>
>>>
>>>> On December 18, 2015 4:17:20 AM Ray Easton
>>>> <raymond.lee.easton at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I was aware that you were alluding to words of HH himself -- all the
>>>> more
>>>> reason to be wary!  HH makes a fictional living out of manipulating the
>>>> way
>>>> we see him.
>>>>
>>>> And one ought to be especially wary in this case, given that the novel
>>>> explicitly pokes fun at the view that this is a morality tale -- that is
>>>> John Ray's view of the story!
>>>>
>>>> Lolita is indeed more than a stylistic exercise.  It is a presentation
>>>> of
>>>> obsession,  perhaps the best there is; certainly the best with which I
>>>> am
>>>> acquainted.
>>>>
>>>> The novel itself requires no "moral lesson" for its validation.  It is
>>>> we,
>>>> the readers, who want rather desperately to find such a lesson present
>>>> --
>>>> in this we are like HH himself. HH no doubt would say to us, while
>>>> charmingly smiling,  "Hypocrite lecteur..."
>>>>
>>>> Ray
>>>>
>>>> Sent with AquaMail for Android
>>>> http://www.aqua-mail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On December 18, 2015 3:25:35 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeahp. One--I--can sound silly defending fictional " truth" in such a
>>>>> writer. so it be. We differ. Nabokov's LOLITA would be nothing but a
>>>>> stylistic exercise if he did not believe and show in the novel
>>>>> awareness
>>>>> that pedophilia IS pedophilia. My perhaps lame remark on him " getting
>>>>> what
>>>>> he deserves" was, if I remember correctly, a verbal allusion to
>>>>> Humbert's
>>>>> very words as HE suggested his proper punishment, if you will remember.
>>>>>
>>>>> Totally amoral or whatever as you position re Nabokov , you will need
>>>>> to
>>>>> explain Humber's recognition scene and subsequent awareness.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 7:37 PM, Ray Easton <raymond.lee.easton at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I say 'Nabakov does not care a fig...' I am not referring to what
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> man in his "non-fic life" did or did not believe.  (I don't care about
>>>>>> such
>>>>>> things.)  I mean that his novels have no moral viewpoint and present
>>>>>> no
>>>>>> moral lessons.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HH "gets what he deserves" -- you sound like John Ray, Jr., PhD.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ray
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent with AquaMail for Android
>>>>>> http://www.aqua-mail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On December 17, 2015 5:35:40 PM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> yeah, Nabokov greatly dissed 'morality' in fiction all his non-fic
>>>>>>> life...
>>>>>>> but he did believe in themes and human goodness and badness..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> some take Nabokov's constant dissing of 'morality' as part-act
>>>>>>> (against
>>>>>>> lousy, sentimental poshlost fiction) and part unreliable narrator...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, he recognized love and death and themes related to and life
>>>>>>> and sense perceptions and
>>>>>>> so much more in his own
>>>>>>> and in others' fictions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 5:50 PM, Ray Easton
>>>>>>> <raymond.lee.easton at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Morality -- Nabakov does not care a fig about morality.  And  the
>>>>>>>> novel is
>>>>>>>> designed to force us to identity not with Lokita, but with HH.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ray
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On December 17, 2015 4:40:02 PM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> we have to identify with Lolita because common human morality....to
>>>>>>>>> read it right....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> http://www.aqua-mail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>
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