M & D Deep Duck: arc of years

Fri Jan 9 04:52:06 CST 2015

But how does the Potsdam conference fit into this?

"Slothrop recognizes Churchill and Stalin all right, but isn't sure 
about the other one. 'Emil, who's that guy in the glasses?'
'The American president. Mr. Truman.'
'Quit fooling. Truman is vice-president. Roosevelt is president.'
Säure raises an eyebrow. 'Roosevelt died back in spring. Just before the 
surrender.'"

GR, p. 373

On 08.01.2015 19:23, kelber at mindspring.com wrote:
> Pynchon ignores the obvious BIG times and places in his books (Bleeding Edge being the one exception, or  ATD, for the Ludlow Massacre). His characters never happen to be at Pearl Harbor or Omaha Beach or Boston Harbor during the Tea Party. He wants his characters (and/or us) to view these events from a distance (if at all). Most masterfully done, in my opinion in GR with his Hiroshima newspaper scrap. Anyway, a reason not to start the narrative at a more obvious British --> American point, 1776.
>
> Laura
>

> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mark Kohut<mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Jan 8, 2015 12:34 PM
>> To: Becky Lindroos<bekker2 at icloud.com>
>> Cc: pynchon -l<pynchon-l at waste.org>
>> Subject: Re: M & D Deep Duck: arc of years
>>
>> So, I've been led to see it this way now(in my Reading---everyone
>> else's milage seems better).  Story starts in 1786
>>
>> 1) for Laura's reasons mainly. Ending of British colonial rule and
>> becoming of these free, independent new country, the
>> United States. All the idealism is set to go on paper.
>>
>> 2) Mason has died. Rev Cherrycoke came to pay his Respects, although
>> he missed the Funeral, and cannot
>> easily pull away from (the Ghost of) Mason, visiting the grave every day.
>>
>> Hence, he starts his storytelling.
>>
>> Enough meaning to begin.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 9:50 AM, Becky Lindroos<bekker2 at icloud.com>  wrote:
>>> Too many definitional problems.
>>>
>>> Fwiw,  I think the "real" "America" "started" forming its "patterns"  in about 1619 with the first serious permanent (lasting) colonists, including women and agricultural slaves,  in Jamestown and the next year in Plymouth.  Virginia got women that year, as well as their first slaves and the House of Burgesses. The Plymouth Colony had Indian issues, the "frontier,"  mercantilism, Separatism, the work ethic, etc.  These folks were not necessarily interested in making the bucks and returning "home."   Of course "Englishness" (language, political structures,  customs and holidays, etc.)  still prevailed for quite a long time,  but  "Americanism"  grew in little spurts and great leaps, varying by location,  and with some actual pauses, from that time.  There is no "real" boundary - no yes/no line.  To look for one is to once again try to impose a grid on a holistic essence - a straight line on a globe or on the spheres.
>>>
>>> Bekah
>>>
>>>> On Jan 8, 2015, at 2:47 AM, Mark Kohut<mark.kohut at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> David Ewers writes:
>>>>
>>>> What could Mason help Cherrycoke with?  That passage (with the Rev
>>>> feeling like the haunting shade...) suggests the interface
>>>> (mirror/line...) between worlds-type-thing, right?  Again, with Mason
>>>> having "arriv'd at Death"... it's got me wondering about departures
>>>> and arrivals, and what's in between.  An arc?  In the 1760s, could the
>>>> Colonies be said to have departed British-ness but not yet arrived at
>>>> America-ness?
>>>>
>>>> Best I've heard on why the story does not start as M & D ended their
>>>> work. Off the top, it could have. All of their part could have been
>>>> more or less---but w Pynchon I think "less", trying to understand
>>>> why--the same on the page.
>>>>
>>>> So, these twenty years are another boundary (period)? THIS is when the
>>>> 'real' America formed its patterns, always undertowing the coming
>>>> ideals? Although we learn "nothing' about those years, the omniscient
>>>> narrator gives us all the detail of the way the world IS behind 9and
>>>> after) M & D, so to speak?
>>>> -
>>>> Pynchon-l /http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>> -
>> Pynchon-l /http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> -
> Pynchon-l /http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>
>

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