M & D Deep Duck: arc of years

[Heikki R]

Nice thread.Just want to add that both V and M&D start around the
Christmasy Mid-Atlantic, one 10 years after the US Declaration of
Independence, the other 10 years after the WWII.
One difference, of course, being that Profane is a drifting outsider,
Cherrycoke an outsider surrounded (and at least temporarily sheltered) by
the family.


Heikki

On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 12:52 PM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen <
lorentzen at hotmail.de> wrote:

>
> But how does the Potsdam conference fit into this?
>
> "Slothrop recognizes Churchill and Stalin all right, but isn't sure about
> the other one. 'Emil, who's that guy in the glasses?'
> 'The American president. Mr. Truman.'
> 'Quit fooling. Truman is vice-president. Roosevelt is president.'
> Säure raises an eyebrow. 'Roosevelt died back in spring. Just before the
> surrender.'"
>
> GR, p. 373
>
>
> On 08.01.2015 19:23, kelber at mindspring.com wrote:
>
>> Pynchon ignores the obvious BIG times and places in his books (Bleeding
>> Edge being the one exception, or  ATD, for the Ludlow Massacre). His
>> characters never happen to be at Pearl Harbor or Omaha Beach or Boston
>> Harbor during the Tea Party. He wants his characters (and/or us) to view
>> these events from a distance (if at all). Most masterfully done, in my
>> opinion in GR with his Hiroshima newspaper scrap. Anyway, a reason not to
>> start the narrative at a more obvious British --> American point, 1776.
>>
>> Laura
>>
>>
>  -----Original Message-----
>>
>>> From: Mark Kohut<mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Jan 8, 2015 12:34 PM
>>> To: Becky Lindroos<bekker2 at icloud.com>
>>> Cc: pynchon -l<pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>> Subject: Re: M & D Deep Duck: arc of years
>>>
>>> So, I've been led to see it this way now(in my Reading---everyone
>>> else's milage seems better).  Story starts in 1786
>>>
>>> 1) for Laura's reasons mainly. Ending of British colonial rule and
>>> becoming of these free, independent new country, the
>>> United States. All the idealism is set to go on paper.
>>>
>>> 2) Mason has died. Rev Cherrycoke came to pay his Respects, although
>>> he missed the Funeral, and cannot
>>> easily pull away from (the Ghost of) Mason, visiting the grave every day.
>>>
>>> Hence, he starts his storytelling.
>>>
>>> Enough meaning to begin.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 9:50 AM, Becky Lindroos<bekker2 at icloud.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Too many definitional problems.
>>>>
>>>> Fwiw,  I think the "real" "America" "started" forming its "patterns"
>>>> in about 1619 with the first serious permanent (lasting) colonists,
>>>> including women and agricultural slaves,  in Jamestown and the next year in
>>>> Plymouth.  Virginia got women that year, as well as their first slaves and
>>>> the House of Burgesses. The Plymouth Colony had Indian issues, the
>>>> "frontier,"  mercantilism, Separatism, the work ethic, etc.  These folks
>>>> were not necessarily interested in making the bucks and returning "home."
>>>>  Of course "Englishness" (language, political structures,  customs and
>>>> holidays, etc.)  still prevailed for quite a long time,  but
>>>> "Americanism"  grew in little spurts and great leaps, varying by location,
>>>> and with some actual pauses, from that time.  There is no "real" boundary -
>>>> no yes/no line.  To look for one is to once again try to impose a grid on a
>>>> holistic essence - a straight line on a globe or on the spheres.
>>>>
>>>> Bekah
>>>>
>>>>  On Jan 8, 2015, at 2:47 AM, Mark Kohut<mark.kohut at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> David Ewers writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> What could Mason help Cherrycoke with?  That passage (with the Rev
>>>>> feeling like the haunting shade...) suggests the interface
>>>>> (mirror/line...) between worlds-type-thing, right?  Again, with Mason
>>>>> having "arriv'd at Death"... it's got me wondering about departures
>>>>> and arrivals, and what's in between.  An arc?  In the 1760s, could the
>>>>> Colonies be said to have departed British-ness but not yet arrived at
>>>>> America-ness?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best I've heard on why the story does not start as M & D ended their
>>>>> work. Off the top, it could have. All of their part could have been
>>>>> more or less---but w Pynchon I think "less", trying to understand
>>>>> why--the same on the page.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, these twenty years are another boundary (period)? THIS is when the
>>>>> 'real' America formed its patterns, always undertowing the coming
>>>>> ideals? Although we learn "nothing' about those years, the omniscient
>>>>> narrator gives us all the detail of the way the world IS behind 9and
>>>>> after) M & D, so to speak?
>>>>> -
>>>>> Pynchon-l /http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>>
>>>> -
>>> Pynchon-l /http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>
>> -
>> Pynchon-l /http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>
>>
>>
>
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
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