M&D Deep Duck: Why Start Here?

Tue Jan 20 05:49:20 CST 2015

"Of course the whole idea of grids, triangles and numbered objects of trade is wildly dishonest in it's simplification and violence and part of Pychon's goal seems to be to prove that."

Talk more about this?

Www.innergroovemusic.com
Sent from Beyond the Zero

> On Jan 20, 2015, at 5:39 AM, jochen stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Laura, I do not think Dixon's comment (at the end of ch. 4) would mean they were bound for a transit of Mars but that the transit of Mars was now behind them, after the skirmish, and that's what Mason's reply seems to play with: With us going 'cross its face.
> 
> And the story starts here because here is where the two men from the title met for the first time.
> 
> Am I the only one that hears (sees, smells) an echo, just 3 lines before Dixon's comment, in "the insides of Trees, and of Men....", of another, less harmful battle at the beginning of the book, namely of the Snow-Balls that have "starr'd the Sides of Outbuildings, as of Cousins"? 
> 
> 2015-01-20 0:15 GMT+01:00 Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>:
>> agree about the England>Africa>America> triangle which is the golden triangle( rum sugar slaves) and relates to other aspects of the colonial and early corporate ventures( tea, East India Co,  whale oil as energy source of early industrialism) and also to the increasingly fast movement of peoples  to and from all over the world north south east west. Finally there is something about the pursuit of precise linear distances as negotiated on spherical bodies in space- real estate speculation writ large, a topic which seems to carry through all of Pynchon.
>> On Jan 19, 2015, at 1:33 PM, Keith Davis wrote:
>> 
>> > Lines everywhere! Equators, transits, rigging, personal and interpersonal barriers....
>> >
>> > David, these lines of yours are fascinating! Probably built by aliens!
>> >
>> >
>> > Www.innergroovemusic.com
>> > Sent from Beyond the Zero
>> >
>> >> On Jan 19, 2015, at 1:17 PM, David Ewers <dsewers at comcast.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I agree with all you say.  Bringing the equator into the equation is important, I think. ... "To change hemispheres is not abstract thing,--".  I see it as the point where the image gets inverted: "So there must be a Ritual of Crossing Over, to focus....".   I also think there's something to the England>Africa>America>...England triangle, and
>> >> I get a Moby Dick vibe here too (obviously, I suppose...).
>> >>
>> >> To my connection-happy Mind, anyway, a somewhat related aside:
>> >> Every year around my birthday, I get to drag my wife and young daughter out on a dorky day/road trip of my choice... I live in N.California so it's usually Missions or weird old towns.  Today, we're going to look for some of these:  http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/berkeley-mystery-walls
>> >> Anybody know anything about these?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On Jan 19, 2015, at 9:46 AM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I love Dixon's later comment, after the attack, that perhaps they were bound for a transit of Mars.
>> >>>
>> >>> Why start here rather than in America?
>> >>>
>> >>> For one thing, there's all that geometry - ripe for metaphor - entailed in the transit of venus and the crossing of the equator.
>> >>>
>> >>> And how could Pynchon resist recounting the Seahorse incident, which transformed M and D from colleagues to war buddies?
>> >>>
>> >>> If he'd started in America, maybe Mason and Dixon would have faded somewhat into the background of a larger cast of characters?
>> >>>
>> >>> Other opinions?
>> >>>
>> >>> Laura
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> transit of Venus must bring us thoughts of Venus, the goddess, yes? Why did TRP start their trip with this? He could have just had them in America.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sent from my iPad
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On Jan 18, 2015, at 10:13 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I love chapter summaries. Huzzah! The only question I would have would be whether the fight was that one-sided. The next chapter has them speculating that the French were hard after them possibly because of the transit mission.  The battle is told from their POV and says little about damage to the French vessel, but the L'Grand did give up after a serious attack. Maybe I am missing a textual clue here. Tere was also something about Smith hiring skilled rear gunners.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Interesting tidbit about the Captain being required to pay for his own victuals.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Jan 18, 2015, at 4:42 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> My summary. Please, everyone, point out and attack my misreads.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Part 4:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Cherrycoke reminisces to his assembled audience -- which includes his niece Tenebrae, her brothers Pitt and Pliny, their father LeSpark, who we now learn made his fortune in weapon sales, and LeSpark's nephew Ethelmer -- on break from Princeton. Cherrycoke is reminiscing about traveling with Mason and Dixon on the frigate Seahorse, en route to Sumatra, to observe the Transit of Venus. But an event occurs -- well-known already to Cherrycoke's assembled audience -- which he now relates to us.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Mason and Dixon are annoyed to discover that they're apparently being charged for their passage by Captain Smith. It turns out to be a misunderstanding, and Dixon warms up to the Captain when he discovers he enjoys a drink. But there's impending doom on the horizon -- we and Cherrycoke's immediate audience know that the French warship l'Grand is lurking in the Channel. Mason, in particular, seems to sense it. It turns out Ben Coolen (their destination on Sumatra) has fallen to the French, and the Captain's been warned by the Admiralty not to sail for it. So they’re going to head for the Cape of Good Hope instead.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> As the ship sails through the Channel -- considered the most dangerous body of water in the world by some of its sailors -- we learn something of both the captain and his ship. Smith, captain of a near-warship (it lacks the full complement of guns) is, himself, no man of war. He'd prefer to be sharing a drink and having a philosophical chat with the two Men of Science on board. The ship, though, has a proud military record, having served with distinction in Quebec. While the sailors sing a chanty wherein they rhyme Sumatra with Cleopatra, Cherrycoke discourses on the meaning of the ship's motto, Eques Sit AEques, which he translates as "Let the Sea-Knight who would command this Sea-Horse be ever fair-minded." At which point the l'Grand appears on the horizon, and, being a French ship, its intentions are clearly hostile.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> The l'Grand proceeds to kick the shit out of the Seahorse. Cherrycoke, Mason and Dixon, terrified, are dispatched below to serve as makeshift medical aides as the casualties pile up. Finally, the l'Grand stops the mayhem and moves on. Cherrycoke's never been sure what transpired, and he speculates that either the French captain realized there were men of science aboard, signaling: France is not at war with the sciences. Or maybe he just realized that the Seahorse was not a worthy foe: You are leetluh meennow -- I throw you back. Captain Smith, distraught over the dead and wounded lashes out at M and D: Are you two really that important? On deck, Mason and Dixon commune over a couple of bottles of grog. Dixon: More like a Transit of Mars ...? And the Seahorse limps back to the dockyard.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> -
>> >>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -
>> >>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>> >>>> -
>> >>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>> >>>
>> >>> -
>> >>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>> >>
>> >> -
>> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>> > -
>> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list
>> 
>> -
>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://waste.org/pipermail/pynchon-l/attachments/20150120/3a1adc97/attachment.html>