M&D Deep Duck: Why Start Here?

Ian Livingston igrlivingston at gmail.com
Tue Jan 20 09:04:34 CST 2015 

How bout the transit of Mars as having survived and encounter with the god
of war?
And is there a soul in every tree?

On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 3:49 AM, Keith Davis <kbob42 at gmail.com> wrote:

> "Of course the whole idea of grids, triangles and numbered objects of
> trade is wildly dishonest in it's simplification and violence and part of
> Pychon's goal seems to be to prove that."
>
> Talk more about this?
>
>
> Www.innergroovemusic.com
> Sent from Beyond the Zero
>
> On Jan 20, 2015, at 5:39 AM, jochen stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Laura, I do not think Dixon's comment (at the end of ch. 4) would mean
> they were bound for a transit of Mars but that the transit of Mars was now
> behind them, after the skirmish, and that's what Mason's reply seems to
> play with: With us going 'cross *its* face.
>
> And the story starts here because here is where the two men from the title
> met for the first time.
>
> Am I the only one that hears (sees, smells) an echo, just 3 lines before
> Dixon's comment, in "the insides of Trees, and of Men....", of another,
> less harmful battle at the beginning of the book, namely of the Snow-Balls
> that have "starr'd the Sides of Outbuildings, as of Cousins"?
>
> 2015-01-20 0:15 GMT+01:00 Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>:
>
>> agree about the England>Africa>America> triangle which is the golden
>> triangle( rum sugar slaves) and relates to other aspects of the colonial
>> and early corporate ventures( tea, East India Co,  whale oil as energy
>> source of early industrialism) and also to the increasingly fast movement
>> of peoples  to and from all over the world north south east west. Finally
>> there is something about the pursuit of precise linear distances as
>> negotiated on spherical bodies in space- real estate speculation writ
>> large, a topic which seems to carry through all of Pynchon.
>> On Jan 19, 2015, at 1:33 PM, Keith Davis wrote:
>>
>> > Lines everywhere! Equators, transits, rigging, personal and
>> interpersonal barriers....
>> >
>> > David, these lines of yours are fascinating! Probably built by aliens!
>> >
>> >
>> > Www.innergroovemusic.com
>> > Sent from Beyond the Zero
>> >
>> >> On Jan 19, 2015, at 1:17 PM, David Ewers <dsewers at comcast.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I agree with all you say.  Bringing the equator into the equation is
>> important, I think. ... "To change hemispheres is not abstract thing,--".
>> I see it as the point where the image gets inverted: "So there must be a
>> Ritual of Crossing Over, to focus....".   I also think there's something to
>> the England>Africa>America>...England triangle, and
>> >> I get a Moby Dick vibe here too (obviously, I suppose...).
>> >>
>> >> To my connection-happy Mind, anyway, a somewhat related aside:
>> >> Every year around my birthday, I get to drag my wife and young
>> daughter out on a dorky day/road trip of my choice... I live in
>> N.California so it's usually Missions or weird old towns.  Today, we're
>> going to look for some of these:
>> http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/berkeley-mystery-walls
>> >> Anybody know anything about these?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On Jan 19, 2015, at 9:46 AM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I love Dixon's later comment, after the attack, that perhaps they
>> were bound for a transit of Mars.
>> >>>
>> >>> Why start here rather than in America?
>> >>>
>> >>> For one thing, there's all that geometry - ripe for metaphor -
>> entailed in the transit of venus and the crossing of the equator.
>> >>>
>> >>> And how could Pynchon resist recounting the Seahorse incident, which
>> transformed M and D from colleagues to war buddies?
>> >>>
>> >>> If he'd started in America, maybe Mason and Dixon would have faded
>> somewhat into the background of a larger cast of characters?
>> >>>
>> >>> Other opinions?
>> >>>
>> >>> Laura
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> transit of Venus must bring us thoughts of Venus, the goddess, yes?
>> Why did TRP start their trip with this? He could have just had them in
>> America.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sent from my iPad
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On Jan 18, 2015, at 10:13 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I love chapter summaries. Huzzah! The only question I would have
>> would be whether the fight was that one-sided. The next chapter has them
>> speculating that the French were hard after them possibly because of the
>> transit mission.  The battle is told from their POV and says little about
>> damage to the French vessel, but the L'Grand did give up after a serious
>> attack. Maybe I am missing a textual clue here. Tere was also something
>> about Smith hiring skilled rear gunners.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Interesting tidbit about the Captain being required to pay for his
>> own victuals.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Jan 18, 2015, at 4:42 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> <
>> kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> My summary. Please, everyone, point out and attack my misreads.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Part 4:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Cherrycoke reminisces to his assembled audience -- which includes
>> his niece Tenebrae, her brothers Pitt and Pliny, their father LeSpark, who
>> we now learn made his fortune in weapon sales, and LeSpark's nephew
>> Ethelmer -- on break from Princeton. Cherrycoke is reminiscing about
>> traveling with Mason and Dixon on the frigate Seahorse, en route to
>> Sumatra, to observe the Transit of Venus. But an event occurs -- well-known
>> already to Cherrycoke's assembled audience -- which he now relates to us.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Mason and Dixon are annoyed to discover that they're apparently
>> being charged for their passage by Captain Smith. It turns out to be a
>> misunderstanding, and Dixon warms up to the Captain when he discovers he
>> enjoys a drink. But there's impending doom on the horizon -- we and
>> Cherrycoke's immediate audience know that the French warship l'Grand is
>> lurking in the Channel. Mason, in particular, seems to sense it. It turns
>> out Ben Coolen (their destination on Sumatra) has fallen to the French, and
>> the Captain's been warned by the Admiralty not to sail for it. So they’re
>> going to head for the Cape of Good Hope instead.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> As the ship sails through the Channel -- considered the most
>> dangerous body of water in the world by some of its sailors -- we learn
>> something of both the captain and his ship. Smith, captain of a
>> near-warship (it lacks the full complement of guns) is, himself, no man of
>> war. He'd prefer to be sharing a drink and having a philosophical chat with
>> the two Men of Science on board. The ship, though, has a proud military
>> record, having served with distinction in Quebec. While the sailors sing a
>> chanty wherein they rhyme Sumatra with Cleopatra, Cherrycoke discourses on
>> the meaning of the ship's motto, Eques Sit AEques, which he translates as
>> "Let the Sea-Knight who would command this Sea-Horse be ever fair-minded."
>> At which point the l'Grand appears on the horizon, and, being a French
>> ship, its intentions are clearly hostile.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> The l'Grand proceeds to kick the shit out of the Seahorse.
>> Cherrycoke, Mason and Dixon, terrified, are dispatched below to serve as
>> makeshift medical aides as the casualties pile up. Finally, the l'Grand
>> stops the mayhem and moves on. Cherrycoke's never been sure what
>> transpired, and he speculates that either the French captain realized there
>> were men of science aboard, signaling: France is not at war with the
>> sciences. Or maybe he just realized that the Seahorse was not a worthy foe:
>> You are leetluh meennow -- I throw you back. Captain Smith, distraught over
>> the dead and wounded lashes out at M and D: Are you two really that
>> important? On deck, Mason and Dixon commune over a couple of bottles of
>> grog. Dixon: More like a Transit of Mars ...? And the Seahorse limps back
>> to the dockyard.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> -
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