Brilliantly, sadly observed

[ish mailian]

Not quite the JV team the US President called them, ISIS will be a footnote
in history. It's almost over. Notice the desperation?

On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 4:04 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
>
>
> On Friday, November 27, 2015, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Read Atlantic's article "What ISIS Wants."  The key takeaway is that ISIS
>> needs expanding territory in order to not over milk limited $$ of a finite
>> turf.  ISIS needs nonetheless, but w/o expanded turf, it will crumble from
>> within.  It will be overthrown from within.
>>
>> David Morris
>>
>> On Friday, November 27, 2015, Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think, in the simplest terms,  what  the Middle East wants is for
>>> the West to just buy oil and otherwise mind its own business.  The
>>> West can't do that. There's that persistent and to them quite sinister
>>> thing from our Christian past, that of Conversion. And by the sword if
>>> necessary.  Make everyone think and behave like the West. I guess the
>>> only possible next move is the good old tried and true Peace Process.
>>> It might only slow things down course.  Peace yesterday, peace
>>> tomorrow. Only the peace process today.
>>>
>>> P
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 11:46 AM, Ian Livingston
>>> <igrlivingston at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> only an honest definition of the similarities and differences in what
>>> the
>>> >> US and its allies are doing and have done and what the Muslim groups
>>> are
>>> >> doing will begin the process of understanding.
>>> >
>>> > For the most part, I'm inclined to agree with Joseph, here, but this
>>> last
>>> > phrase from Ish really hits the mark, imo. No country in the West has
>>> > offered a full and coherent statement of their intentions in the Middle
>>> > East, and I have encountered none published here of what anti-Western
>>> > combatants and supporters earnestly desire as an outcome of their
>>> efforts
>>> > and sacrifices. The absence of understanding encourages resistance and
>>> > resistance, it seems inevitably, increases force. Mayhem ensues. It's
>>> not
>>> > even an effective means of population reduction. Understanding and
>>> knowledge
>>> > of the similarities the other shares with the self can unravel
>>> conflict.
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 7:01 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Right. So, we can't use the word "terrorism" to describe the US atomic
>>> >> bombs dropped on Japan, any more than the term should be applied to
>>> the
>>> >> bombings of Iraq, Vietnam....the bombing of Doctors Without Boarders,
>>> of
>>> >> schools and so on by the US. Same goes for the US use of torture & Co.
>>> >>
>>> >> Too much distinction is lost, though, of course, the rhetorical use is
>>> >> effective, in a rant, say, or in a headline or propaganda film on
>>> Youtube.
>>> >>
>>> >> Those who call the US the greatest terrorist nation in the world may
>>> hope
>>> >> to turn the phrase, one the US and its allies use to demonize other
>>> nations
>>> >> and groups, and score a point, but only an honest definition of the
>>> >> similarities and differences in what the US and its allies are doing
>>> and
>>> >> have done and what the Muslim groups are doing will begin the process
>>> of
>>> >> understanding.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 8:30 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Yeah, the U.S. Record is atrocious. Looking up bombing under the
>>> Geneva
>>> >>> conventions, one quickly learns what one knew: atomic bombs that
>>> ended WW2
>>> >>> were ...war crimes.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> No official international treaties cover strategic bombing.
>>> Principles of
>>> >>> necessity and proportionality and attempts to warn citizens are
>>> governing
>>> >>> principles.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> It's all a shithole of death.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> But courses have been changed. Some principles have been followed.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Sent from my iPad
>>> >>>
>>> >>> > On Nov 27, 2015, at 12:12 AM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > So what exactly does the word terrorism mean? Give me a definition.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Also what is a  “rant”.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > When you talk about what “we “ have been able to do since ww2, who
>>> are
>>> >>> > you talking  about. Do the politicians and CIA and Pentagon
>>> consult with
>>> >>> > you. At any rate I find the international record of the US
>>> government after
>>> >>> > ww2 to be mostly horrible.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >> On Nov 26, 2015, at 8:31 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> The diversity of approaches  can't be ignored, and labeling one,
>>> the
>>> >>> >> bombing and droning by America, for example, as "terrorism",
>>> while an
>>> >>> >> effective rhetorical strategy to counter the American propaganda
>>> that seeks
>>> >>> >> to paste this label on its current targets, is counterproductive.
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> War, not only destroys communities, wastes resources, and so on,
>>> it
>>> >>> >> compounds the difficulties that are naturally and inherently
>>> present in
>>> >>> >> communication across cultures, as fundamental differences about
>>> human
>>> >>> >> communities become ideologically rigid by the exercise of power
>>> and the use
>>> >>> >> of violence and intimidation (terror).
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> That said, the end of violence, while a necessary step, one that
>>> will
>>> >>> >> stop making matters worse, will also bring more complexity to the
>>> problem,
>>> >>> >> and even more approaches to solving it. The peace process will
>>> admit more
>>> >>> >> voices, more groups, more diversity.
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Human rights, justice, independence, self-determination, security,
>>> >>> >> education, freedom....these are not going to flourish once the
>>> west ceases
>>> >>> >> the bombing and droning. To achieve these, is, of course,  much
>>> more
>>> >>> >> difficult than waging wars.
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Fortunately, we have some decent models. While never perfect, we
>>> can
>>> >>> >> look to what we have been able to do, since WWII, and work for a
>>> lasting
>>> >>> >> peace in this troubled region of the world. We will need Russia
>>> and China
>>> >>> >> and others to get it done. And, while  I doubt it will happen,
>>> that's what
>>> >>> >> it will take. To dismiss the West and the whites, and smear them
>>> all with
>>> >>> >> trumpings makes for good headlines in a tabloid,
>>> rants.....nothing more....
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Aside from the ranting, there are advantages to the privileged
>>> who can
>>> >>> >> articulate their grievances and capitalize on the plight of the
>>> poor and
>>> >>> >> powerless, who are, of course, disproportionately, people of
>>> color in the
>>> >>> >> US,  but we've seen this movie before. Pynchon wrote a novel
>>> about it.
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 7:37 AM, ish mailian <
>>> ishmailian at gmail.com>
>>> >>> >> wrote:
>>> >>> >> So send in ground troops? That won't work. More importantly, tt
>>> won't
>>> >>> >> prevent the thing you most want to stop, the killing of citizens,
>>> >>> >> non-combatants. War is not the answer. Peace is the answer. Can
>>> we make
>>> >>> >> peace with all these parties and factions? No. So there is no way
>>> out of
>>> >>> >> this. It will never end. We have to live with it best we can.
>>> Stop the
>>> >>> >> bombing and droning, stop the funding and arms sales, stop
>>> tearing down
>>> >>> >> governments, propping puppets. This won't wash the West of blood
>>> or absolve
>>> >>> >> it from the bloody civil and regional wars that will continue,
>>> worsen
>>> >>> >> perhaps, but art least the west can get on with the business of
>>> money.
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 11:36 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
>>> >>> >> wrote:
>>> >>> >> I never said Al Qaeda or BinLaden were responding in kind. I said
>>> Isis
>>> >>> >> was. But I think it is you who fails to understand moral
>>> equivalence. You
>>> >>> >> seem to think that The US can murder hundreds of thousands in a
>>> nation that
>>> >>> >> neither attacked nor threatened them  and expect to be safe
>>> themselves. What
>>> >>> >> about the wealthy 'freedom fighters' of recent US history and
>>> their idiotic
>>> >>> >> reasons for starting wars. What about the mass killing in Gaza?
>>> What about
>>> >>> >> our support for Mubarak, the Shah, the Saudis. What about the
>>> estimated
>>> >>> >> million children who starved due to our blockade of Iraq. What
>>> about our
>>> >>> >> torture? Why isn’t the same kind of outrage over Paris directed
>>> at the US
>>> >>> >> killing of Doctors and patients in the MSF hospital? Isn’t it
>>> that we don’t
>>> >>> >> want to look at our own crimes and stupidity and violence, or to
>>> question
>>> >>> >> the nasty behavior of the US military?
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Fuck america’s ignorant and murderous self-righteousness.  And the
>>> >>> >> same for the French leader who started bombing in Libya and the
>>> ISIS
>>> >>> >> territories. He risked his civilian citizens when he rained bombs
>>> on cities
>>> >>> >> which have more non-combatant civilians than Isis fighters. What
>>> he did was
>>> >>> >> just as bad as what they did.
>>> >>> >>  The only way to fight a group like this without collective
>>> punishment
>>> >>> >> is on the ground, following the Geneva accord to avoid civilian
>>> casualties,
>>> >>> >> and followed by the kind of economic aid given to Japan and
>>> Germany. That is
>>> >>> >> very costly, but the bombing is pure terrorism and  begets more
>>> of the same.
>>> >>> >> Both Bush and Obama had the stated strategy , on which billions
>>> was spent,
>>> >>> >> of training the Iraqi army to handle internal threats. Before
>>> that it was
>>> >>> >> massive bombing and a large ground war. None of these strategies
>>> has brought
>>> >>> >> the stated goals. Neither will this new bombing campaign.
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>> On Nov 25, 2015, at 9:14 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> " They" claimed?---not any I believed ...and ISIS out of
>>> Al---Qaeda
>>> >>> >>> would NOT have happened if we had not bombed? ( not that I
>>> believe we should
>>> >>> >>> have bombed Iraq, but I say nothing would have stopped ISIS from
>>> happening.
>>> >>> >>> And the most major difficulty is stopping/destroying a
>>> transnational group
>>> >>> >>> such as Al--Qaeda formed by a wealthy 'freedom fighter' who
>>> fought the
>>> >>> >>> Russians whose ideology held Westernism---your life and
>>> mine---as an evil in
>>> >>> >>> itself....and who " responded in kind" to our having military
>>> bases in Saudi
>>> >>> >>> Arabia, an ally, by knocking down the World Trade Center and
>>> killing 3000. “
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> He claimed also to be responding to Israel’s treatment of
>>> >>> >> Palestinians. Many westerners, avid for war, describe Islam in
>>> the same
>>> >>> >> way,”an evil in itself". All militaristic cultures fill
>>> themselves with the
>>> >>> >> same lies in order to control land, gain power and enrich
>>> themselves at
>>> >>> >> others expense.
>>> >>> >>> IN kind" shows you don't get " moral equivalence" in any way.
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>>> On Nov 25, 2015, at 8:23 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>>> I think you are dreaming when it comes to Obama and global
>>> warming.
>>> >>> >>>> Under enormous political pressure he finally canned the tar
>>> sands pipeline,
>>> >>> >>>> but has dramatically increased fracking and continued gulf oil
>>> operations
>>> >>> >>>> despite the spill and also opened the arctic. He talks one way
>>> and acts
>>> >>> >>>> another in virtually every issue.
>>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>>> The problem with bombing is it is wildly indiscriminate and
>>> kills
>>> >>> >>>> many civilians.  US bombs in Syria have killed many more
>>> civilians than were
>>> >>> >>>> killed in all Isis attacks on  westerners. We are also bombing
>>> and doing
>>> >>> >>>> drone missile strikes in Yemen, Afghanistan, Africa etc.
>>> >>> >>>> If you want to make war you need to do all that is possible to
>>> avoid
>>> >>> >>>> civilian deaths or you are just terrorists with uniforms and
>>> jets.
>>> >>> >>>> Collective punishment is evil.
>>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>>> The sad truth is that the US is still the major planetary
>>> terrorist
>>> >>> >>>> of the last 2 decades and ISIS is simply responding  in kind.
>>> You seem to
>>> >>> >>>> approve of the very tactics that led to these attacks.
>>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>>> The Syrian rebels you speak of have absorbed into ISIS or
>>> decimated
>>> >>> >>>> to virtual non-existence.
>>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>>> You want to imagine that this utterly horrible policy of
>>> solving all
>>> >>> >>>> conflicts with bombs will magically work this time? They
>>> claimed it had
>>> >>> >>>> worked in Iraq right up until ISIS proved them to be liars and
>>> idiots.
>>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>>>> that does not destabilize us.
>>> >>> >>>>> On Nov 25, 2015, at 7:29 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>> >>> >>>>> wrote:
>>> >>> >>>>> paris, beirut and the Russian plane show they are a global
>>> threat,
>>> >>> >>>>> imho. I do not know what else
>>> >>> >>>>> to do but soldiers on the ground means more deaths and no
>>> >>> >>>>> resolution
>>> >>> >>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>> Obama has clearly spoken against Us Military dominance. I do
>>> not
>>> >>> >>>>> know
>>> >>> >>>>> how self-governance will take hold,
>>> >>> >>>>> unless the Syrian rebels take down Assad and make it happen.
>>> >>> >>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>> The move off oil--and to other sources of energy---has been
>>> >>> >>>>> happening
>>> >>> >>>>> and accelerated by Obama.
>>> >>> >>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Joseph Tracy <
>>> brook7 at sover.net>
>>> >>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>> On Nov 25, 2015, at 4:40 PM, Mark Kohut <
>>> mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>> >>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>> Is ISIS an existential global threat, in your mind. And what
>>> is
>>> >>> >>>>>>> to be
>>> >>> >>>>>>> done if it is?
>>> >>> >>>>>> ISIS has clearly reached its limits as a regional force and
>>> >>> >>>>>> millions are fleeing the area. They are refugees from ISIS,
>>> from drought,
>>> >>> >>>>>> from bombs,  from the Syrian army and from the Iraqi army. So
>>> the fact that
>>> >>> >>>>>> ISIS is ruling by terror and ideological solidarity over such
>>> an
>>> >>> >>>>>> inhospitable and deadly region is hardly an existential
>>> threat.
>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>> What is to be done? Not bombs, not drones, not coalitions
>>> with the
>>> >>> >>>>>> dictatorial monarchy that bred Isis and Al Qaeda. Not regime
>>> change with a
>>> >>> >>>>>> new set of Generals and dickhead dictators. These have been
>>> tried again and
>>> >>> >>>>>> again.  Our policies in  Vietnam, Afghanistan, Libya and Iraq
>>> have failed
>>> >>> >>>>>> miserably, and yet more of that is what is proposed by Obama
>>> and the
>>> >>> >>>>>> Republicans. Part of the problem here is that some things
>>> can’t be fixed any
>>> >>> >>>>>> more than people can be brought back from the dead.
>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>> If the nations of the earth truly want to disarm ISIS and
>>> bring
>>> >>> >>>>>> justice to the region it would require ground troops with a
>>> high commitment
>>> >>> >>>>>> to the Geneva conventions and a willingness to address the
>>> original
>>> >>> >>>>>> injustices to regional Sunni Arabs.  Clearly the civil war
>>> between Shia and
>>> >>> >>>>>> Sunni  Iraqis did not resolve the problems in Iraq  following
>>> the massive
>>> >>> >>>>>> destruction of the war. Despite plenty of weapons, training
>>> and money the
>>> >>> >>>>>> government of Iraq could not stop the seizure of control by
>>> the ISIS
>>> >>> >>>>>> fighters.
>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>> US policy needs to change dramatically away from global
>>> military
>>> >>> >>>>>> dominance toward creating a working model of a just middle
>>> class peaceable
>>> >>> >>>>>> multi-ethnic, tolerant  republic/democracy/ parliamentary
>>> socialism/whatever
>>> >>> >>>>>> we choose in a reasonably non-corrupt self governing process.
>>> We need to
>>> >>> >>>>>> lead toward renewable energy and local full spectrum green
>>> economies. Either
>>> >>> >>>>>> we move toward something like that or we continue on the path
>>> to globally
>>> >>> >>>>>> destructive wars for dominance, resource extraction, and an
>>> ecological death
>>> >>> >>>>>> spiral.
>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Joseph Tracy
>>> >>> >>>>>>>> <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Calling people knuckle draggers may have some accuracy and
>>> offer
>>> >>> >>>>>>>> some comic release, but are our problems really coming from
>>> the
>>> >>> >>>>>>>> semi-literate? Is  the US Military and our campaigns of
>>> mass obliteration
>>> >>> >>>>>>>> and drone warfare in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and now Isis
>>> controlled
>>> >>> >>>>>>>> regions the product of semi-literacy or even the
>>> Republicans? The votes and
>>> >>> >>>>>>>> financing came from both parties, many lawyers, many
>>> newspeople. My feeling
>>> >>> >>>>>>>> is that Trump is just like Netanyahu, a shrewd public power
>>> broker who knows
>>> >>> >>>>>>>> fear and war are the ultimate political drug, and voices
>>> openly the
>>> >>> >>>>>>>> xenopobic hate mongering that produced the blowback.
>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Many educated people are as addicted to denial and military
>>> >>> >>>>>>>> violence and the racism of neglect as the more obviously
>>> ignorant followers
>>> >>> >>>>>>>> of Trump and Cruz.. The Paris attacks have produced an ugly
>>> willingness to
>>> >>> >>>>>>>> keep bombing regardless of how man regional civilians die,
>>> and that
>>> >>> >>>>>>>> willingness goes across the political spectrum.
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> On Nov 24, 2015, at 8:09 PM, David Kilroy
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> <thesaintgodard at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> "It's clear now that the Paris attacks enormously
>>> energized the
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> Trumpist movement. He's now speculating openly about
>>> invading Syria. Trump's
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> proposals have gone from overt prejudice to things
>>> literally taken out of
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> late Weimar history — closure of mosques and a national
>>> Muslim database. The
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> rank-and-file have both fed off and stoked this behavior.
>>> When a lone
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> protester started chanting "black lives matter" at a Trump
>>> rally, Trumpists
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> jumped him (he was luckily not badly injured). Trump later
>>> said, "Maybe he
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> should have been roughed up." Hours later he lied about
>>> witnessing Muslim
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> crowds celebrating 9/11, and retweeted nonsense racist
>>> garbage from a
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> literal neo-Nazi."
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> http://theweek.com/articles/590497/donald-trumps-alarming-skid-toward-outright-fascism
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> After decades of being allowed to stockpile arms with
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> increasingly little federal interference, a general
>>> escalation in the
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> violent rhetoric of the right, and shrill sponsorship from
>>> the NRA,
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> semiliterate knuckle-draggers are only too eager to start
>>> a race /
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> "religious" war in the U.S., and the candidates, allowed
>>> to start their
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> noisome campaigns two years in advance of an actual
>>> election, are only
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> egging them on.
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> I live in a state where black churches were burned, in a
>>> city
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> with clear color lines.  I'm not afraid of black people.
>>> I'm afraid of
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> shitheads teething for glory.
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 7:37 PM, David Kilroy
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> <thesaintgodard at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> Apologies for harping on this point.  Know that I do.  But
>>> it
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> frankly terrifies me.
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 7:17 PM, David Kilroy
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> <thesaintgodard at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> (shades of Lot 49, too: recall the swastika armbands)
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 7:16 PM, David Kilroy
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> <thesaintgodard at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> The tech sector's too "What, me worry?" about the problem.
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> Anonymity in comments threads, Craigslist, 4chan, Reddit
>>> et al
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> permit open promulgation of hate speech.  Most sites, when
>>> confronted about
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> the problem, cite free speech as a concern when the fact
>>> is they don't want
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> to face the added hassle of verifying accounts and making
>>> people responsible
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> for their words.
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> There's a massive network of these shitheads armed for a
>>> race
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> riot and no-one seems to want to stop them.
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 5:05 PM, Steven Koteff
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> <steviekoteff at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks a lot for this, Mark. Reading it now, and I agree
>>> with
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> you. Very smart and sadder for it.
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Mark Kohut
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> Charlie Pierce on the Powder Keg that is the United States
>>> of
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> America
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> right now
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a39987/america-race-powderkeg/
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> …
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> -
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> --
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> http://davidkilroy.tumblr.com/
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> --
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> http://davidkilroy.tumblr.com/
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> --
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> http://davidkilroy.tumblr.com/
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> --
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> http://davidkilroy.tumblr.com/
>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>>>> -
>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>> >>> >>>>>>> -
>>> >>> >>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list
>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>> -
>>> >>> >>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>>> -
>>> >>> >>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>> >>> >>> -
>>> >>> >>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> -
>>> >>> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > -
>>> >>> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>> >>> -
>>> >>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> -
>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>>
>>
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