NP Brasil

[ish mailian]

I still don't know what your opinion on Lula and Chavez has to do with what
I have posted. I've not even mentioned Chavez. On Lula we disagree. Other
than that I have no idea what you are talking about.

On Sunday, March 20, 2016, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:

> the socialist experiments are also dismal failures in south america--lula,
> chavez, that's what
>
> On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 5:19 PM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ishmailian at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>>  What?
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 12:46 PM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','richard.romeo at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>> > from what i've read the corruption re; Petrobas has not stopped under
>> Lula
>> > and Dilma.
>> >
>> > you sure dont give poor people credit for thinking for themselves do
>> you?
>> > being led by their noses by faceless elites. I dont buy it.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 8:01 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ishmailian at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> An excellent point.
>> >> However, the fact that the protests are largely organized and funded
>> >> by the elite, including the powerful elite outside the country who are
>> >> desperate to get their greedy fingers on the resources of the nation
>> >> and to put an end to one of the most successful efforts to support the
>> >> poor, the landless, and the rights of the indigenous peoples calls for
>> >> a closer examination of the protest objectives and its composition.
>> >> That photograph of the wealthy white couple and the nanny has become a
>> >> symbol of the need for such scrutiny. The PT, as the article points
>> >> out, has a very loyal electorate, mostly poor and powerless and darker
>> >> in complexion. The poor have hammered by the press, the government
>> >> programs that helped to lift 50 million from abject poverty have been
>> >> demonized by the rich, the affluent and their constituency, by the
>> >> churches, by the business classes and even by the Vice president, who
>> >> is, by strange workings of politics, not of the PT party. That the
>> >> protesters embrace the prosecution of elites and of corrupt
>> >> politicians is a common ground, but that they reject Lula/Dilma work
>> >> to support the poorest members of the society must be analyzed and
>> >> debated.
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 5:40 AM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen
>> >> <lorentzen at hotmail.de
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','lorentzen at hotmail.de');>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> None of this is a defense of PT. Both because of genuine widespread
>> >> >> corruption in that party and national economic woes, Dilma and PT
>> are
>> >> >> intensely unpopular among all classes and groups, even including the
>> >> >> party’s
>> >> >> working-class base. But the street protests — as undeniably large
>> and
>> >> >> energized as they have been — are driven by those who are
>> traditionally
>> >> >> hostile to PT. The number of people participating in these protests
>> —
>> >> >> while
>> >> >> in the millions — is dwarfed by the number (54 million) who voted to
>> >> >> re-elect Dilma less than two years ago. In a democracy, governments
>> are
>> >> >> chosen by voting, not by displays of street opposition —
>> particularly
>> >> >> where,
>> >> >> as in Brazil, the protests are drawn from a relatively narrow
>> societal
>> >> >> segment. <
>> >> >
>> >> > When millions are marching the streets it's not nothing, yet a strong
>> >> > manifestation of democracy. And while it's true that in
>> parliamentarism
>> >> > "governments are chosen by voting", the democratic possibilities of
>> the
>> >> > people, as the subject of the constituent power, can never be
>> reduced to
>> >> > taking part in elections and plebiscites. As Carl Schmitt says: The
>> >> > people
>> >> > are an immediately present and real entity.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> > "Nach der demokratischen Lehre von der verfassungsgebenden Gewalt des
>> >> > Volkes
>> >> > steht das Volk als Träger der verfassungsgebenen Gewalt außer und
>> über
>> >> > jeder
>> >> > verfassungsgesetzlichen Normierung. Wenn ihm verfassungsgesetzlich
>> >> > gewisse
>> >> > Zuständigkeiten (Wahlen und Abstimmungen) übertragen werden, ist
>> damit
>> >> > seine
>> >> > politische Handlungsmöglichkeit in einer Demokratie keineswegs
>> erschöpft
>> >> > und
>> >> > erledigt. Neben allen solchen Normierungen bleibt das Volk als
>> >> > unmittelbar
>> >> > anwesende - nicht durch vorher umschriebene Normierungen, Geltungen
>> und
>> >> > Fiktionen vermittelte - wirkliche Größe vorhanden."
>> >> >
>> >> > Carl Schmitt: Verfassungslehre [1928], § 18,  p. 242, Berlin 1993:
>> >> > Duncker &
>> >> > Humblot.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On 18.03.2016 21:16, ish mailian wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> https://theintercept.com/2016/03/18/brazil-is-engulfed-by-ruling-class-corruption-and-a-dangerous-subversion-of-democracy/
>> >> > -
>> >> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> -
>> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>> >
>> >
>> -
>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>
>
>
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