NP Brasil

[rich]

the socialist experiments are also dismal failures in south america--lula,
chavez, that's what

On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 5:19 PM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:

>  What?
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 12:46 PM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
> > from what i've read the corruption re; Petrobas has not stopped under
> Lula
> > and Dilma.
> >
> > you sure dont give poor people credit for thinking for themselves do you?
> > being led by their noses by faceless elites. I dont buy it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 8:01 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> An excellent point.
> >> However, the fact that the protests are largely organized and funded
> >> by the elite, including the powerful elite outside the country who are
> >> desperate to get their greedy fingers on the resources of the nation
> >> and to put an end to one of the most successful efforts to support the
> >> poor, the landless, and the rights of the indigenous peoples calls for
> >> a closer examination of the protest objectives and its composition.
> >> That photograph of the wealthy white couple and the nanny has become a
> >> symbol of the need for such scrutiny. The PT, as the article points
> >> out, has a very loyal electorate, mostly poor and powerless and darker
> >> in complexion. The poor have hammered by the press, the government
> >> programs that helped to lift 50 million from abject poverty have been
> >> demonized by the rich, the affluent and their constituency, by the
> >> churches, by the business classes and even by the Vice president, who
> >> is, by strange workings of politics, not of the PT party. That the
> >> protesters embrace the prosecution of elites and of corrupt
> >> politicians is a common ground, but that they reject Lula/Dilma work
> >> to support the poorest members of the society must be analyzed and
> >> debated.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 5:40 AM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen
> >> <lorentzen at hotmail.de> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> None of this is a defense of PT. Both because of genuine widespread
> >> >> corruption in that party and national economic woes, Dilma and PT are
> >> >> intensely unpopular among all classes and groups, even including the
> >> >> party’s
> >> >> working-class base. But the street protests — as undeniably large and
> >> >> energized as they have been — are driven by those who are
> traditionally
> >> >> hostile to PT. The number of people participating in these protests —
> >> >> while
> >> >> in the millions — is dwarfed by the number (54 million) who voted to
> >> >> re-elect Dilma less than two years ago. In a democracy, governments
> are
> >> >> chosen by voting, not by displays of street opposition — particularly
> >> >> where,
> >> >> as in Brazil, the protests are drawn from a relatively narrow
> societal
> >> >> segment. <
> >> >
> >> > When millions are marching the streets it's not nothing, yet a strong
> >> > manifestation of democracy. And while it's true that in
> parliamentarism
> >> > "governments are chosen by voting", the democratic possibilities of
> the
> >> > people, as the subject of the constituent power, can never be reduced
> to
> >> > taking part in elections and plebiscites. As Carl Schmitt says: The
> >> > people
> >> > are an immediately present and real entity.
> >> >
> >> >
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > "Nach der demokratischen Lehre von der verfassungsgebenden Gewalt des
> >> > Volkes
> >> > steht das Volk als Träger der verfassungsgebenen Gewalt außer und über
> >> > jeder
> >> > verfassungsgesetzlichen Normierung. Wenn ihm verfassungsgesetzlich
> >> > gewisse
> >> > Zuständigkeiten (Wahlen und Abstimmungen) übertragen werden, ist damit
> >> > seine
> >> > politische Handlungsmöglichkeit in einer Demokratie keineswegs
> erschöpft
> >> > und
> >> > erledigt. Neben allen solchen Normierungen bleibt das Volk als
> >> > unmittelbar
> >> > anwesende - nicht durch vorher umschriebene Normierungen, Geltungen
> und
> >> > Fiktionen vermittelte - wirkliche Größe vorhanden."
> >> >
> >> > Carl Schmitt: Verfassungslehre [1928], § 18,  p. 242, Berlin 1993:
> >> > Duncker &
> >> > Humblot.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 18.03.2016 21:16, ish mailian wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> https://theintercept.com/2016/03/18/brazil-is-engulfed-by-ruling-class-corruption-and-a-dangerous-subversion-of-democracy/
> >> > -
> >> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> -
> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> >
> >
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
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