GR translation: Though thy Glass today be run

Sat May 14 23:20:11 CDT 2016

I've never heard of it either.  It certainly would be a nice challenge to
translate that into Chinese.

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 2:14 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:

> I'm ashamed to admit that I was unfamiliar with the poem. Thanks for
> bringing it up, Jochen! I'm the richer for it.
>
> Laura
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jochen Stremmel
> Sent: May 13, 2016 1:47 PM
> To: Mark Kohut
> Cc: Mike Jing , Pynchon Mailing List
> Subject: Re: GR translation: Though thy Glass today be run
>
> You're a killjoy, Mark! 40 years ago I needed half a day and a night
> before I realized that it was composed only of monosyllables – talk about
> laconism in the face of death.
>
> Not adequately translatable into any language I know ...
>
> And, Mike, if I had been sure that you're definitely through I would have
> congratulated as well!
>
> Jochen
>
> 2016-05-13 18:49 GMT+02:00 kelber at mindspring.com <kelber at mindspring.com>:
>
>> Yes, congratulations, Mike! What an accomplishment!
>>
>> Laura
>>
>> *Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID*
>>
>>
>> János Széky <miksaapja at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 1. Yes, it's the Hand of God Almighty.
>> 2. Although God is Almighty, you, personally, may (and surely will) die
>> before He can turn the time.
>> I don't remember where I read an analysis that said the logic derails
>> from the third line. A recommend translating the poem literally.
>>
>> And congratulations!
>>
>> 2016-05-13 12:04 GMT+02:00 Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>:
>>
>>>
>>>    - Elegy
>>>
>>> Tichborne's *Elegy* (his rhyming, final soliloquy
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soliloquy> poem [10]
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chidiock_Tichborne#cite_note-10> ), uses
>>> two favorite Renaissance figures of speech - antithesis
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antithesis> and paradox
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox> - to crystallize the tragedy of
>>> the poet's situation.Antithesis
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antithesis> means setting opposites
>>> against each other: prime of youth / frost of cares (from the first line).
>>> This is typical of Renaissance poetry, as for example in Wyatt's "I find no
>>> peace, and all my war is done", with the lover freezing/burning. We also
>>> see it in the poem by Elizabeth I, "I grieve and dare not show my
>>> discontent", e.g., "I am and not, I freeze and yet am burned."A paradox
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox> is a statement which seems
>>> self-contradictory, yet is true, e.g., "My tale is heard, and yet it was
>>> not told", or "My glass is full, and now my glass is run."Often a
>>> Renaissance poem will begin with antithesis to establish circumstances and
>>> reveal its themes through paradox..
>>>
>>> The *Elegy* is remarkable for being written almost entirely in
>>> monosyllables <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllables> (every word in
>>> the poem is of one syllable, with ten words in each line
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_(poetry)>, Monostich
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monostich> style), with the possible
>>> exception of the word "fallen". However, in early editions it was written
>>> as "fall'n" which is monosyllabic
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllables>.[11]
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chidiock_Tichborne#cite_note-11>
>>>
>>> The *Elegy* has inspired many *homages* and 'answers' including those
>>> by Jonathon Robin at allpoetry.com ; a rap version by David A More at
>>> www.marlovian.com ; *After Reading Tichborne's Elegy* by Dick Allen
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Allen_(poet)> (2003) and an
>>> affecting reworking by Nick Montfort
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Montfort> called Tichborne's
>>> Lexicon, which is an alphabetical list of the words in the Elegy (
>>> http://nickm.com/poems/#riddles). The *Elegy* has also been set to
>>> music many times from the Elizabethan era to the present day by, among
>>> others, Michael East, Richard Alison (fl1580-1610, in *An Hour's
>>> Recreation in musicke*, 1606), John Mundy
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mundy_(composer)> (1592) and Charles-François
>>> Gounod <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles-Fran%C3%A7ois_Gounod> (1873)
>>> and more recently Norman Dello Joio (1949) and Jim Clark (see [1]
>>> <http://wn.com/Tichborne's_Elegy_Poem_animation>).
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 5:02 AM, Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm surely not the only one on the list to know this great poem:
>>>>
>>>> My prime of youth, is but a frost of Cares,
>>>> My feast of joy, is but a dish of pain,
>>>> My Crop of Corn is but a field of tares,
>>>> And all my good is but vain hope of gain:
>>>>     The day is past, and yet I saw no Sun,
>>>>     And now I live, and now my life is done.
>>>>
>>>> The Spring is past, and yet it hath not sprung;
>>>> The fruit is dead, and yet the leaves are green:
>>>> My youth is gone, and yet I am but young:
>>>> I saw the world, and yet I was not seen.
>>>>     My thread is cut, and yet it is not spun:
>>>>     And now I live, and now my life is done.
>>>>
>>>> I sought my death, and found it in my womb,
>>>> I look'd for life, and saw it was a shade:
>>>> I trod the earth, and knew it was my tomb,
>>>> And now I die, and now I am but made.
>>>>     The glass is full, and now my glass is run,
>>>>     And now I live, and now my life is done.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if you have to be not a native speaker to recognize what it
>>>> makes so special.
>>>>
>>>> 2016-05-13 9:22 GMT+02:00 Mike Jing <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> V760.28-35, P776.1-8
>>>>> There is a Hand to turn the time,
>>>>> Though thy Glass today be run,
>>>>> Till the Light that hath brought the Towers low
>>>>> Find the last poor Pret’rite one . . .
>>>>> Till the Riders sleep by ev’ry road,
>>>>> All through our crippl’d Zone,
>>>>> With a face on ev’ry mountainside,
>>>>> And a Soul in ev’ry stone. . . .
>>>>>
>>>>> I assume the "Glass" means hourglass, is that correct?
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, is the "Hand" the Hand of God?  And what exactly is the sense of
>>>>> "Though" here?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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