Asymmetrical Polarization

Fri Dec 15 08:17:42 CST 2017

I think accusing me of being Ish Mailian (or whomever) is an attempt to discredit me (or something). Which is fine.

And however you cut it, the NYT remains the paper of record, for better or worse & does have buried in it some real investigative journalism. But again, that's comparing apples to torn apart Iraqi children. And when that's given due consideration, I feel feelings that are hard to describe.

Feelings that make the current media circus small peanuts. 

Apologies for letting my composure slip.

> On Dec 15, 2017, at 9:05 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> "NOT genuine" of course. Sorry. 
> 
>> On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:02 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>> And I apologize publicly for suggesting your pseudonym was genuine---that is, not an infamous personage from the Plist past. 
>> Apology is only good IF you are not that person. 
>> 
>> Only other thing to say, is there are/is lots of media digging out the truth these days. Probably more than ever. Not one "exact' media
>> in my list but many. 
>> 
>> Take Care,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 8:56 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I think your question has no answer as you frame it. 
>>> 
>>> Good luck. 
>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 8:54 AM, Atticus Pinecone <atticuspinecone at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm dead serious.
>>>> 
>>>> The bad far outweighs the good. You all—I hope—recall which wars and military actions began with lies. Lies in the exact media I "must not be following". And I know you have a vague, if not good, idea of the civilian death counts—so I'm really asking, what's one example of journalism that offsets one million dead civilians? 
>>>> 
>>>> 100,000? One thousand? 43?
>>>> 
>>>> I sense that people don't like having their heads yanked out of the sand.
>>>> 
>>>> And I'm not saying there aren't any—but I sense the books don't come close to balancing.
>>>> 
>>>> So with that framing, I hope you don't still think my question is a waste. 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 15, 2017, at 5:31 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> You know the problems with answering your question Atticus? Some on this list will start denying any real examples by org associationism--
>>>>> the new Left McCarthyites. 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  If you don't already know SOME answers, then you
>>>>> must not be following anywhere where one can get such examples. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> So, although there is a suspicion re your pseudonym and a suggestion
>>>>> that you are more shit-stirrer--I used to know the Yiddish---than interested, if you genuinely want some answers, write me offlist. Morris
>>>>> and lots of others who know answers don't need to waste their time. Nor I mine, unless.....
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you don't already know some investigative reporting that
>>>>> has brought down generals, won a Senate race, revealed the Stuxnet attack, reported on intelligence secrecies and actions
>>>>> up until one court decision away from a long prison sentence, brought us Romney's 47% tape and, of course, all the being-proven truths about
>>>>> the Russian attacks on the US election, then ....
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 4:51 PM, Atticus Pinecone <atticuspinecone at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I don't doubt it. Just asking for examples...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Dec 14, 2017, at 4:37 PM, Robert Mahnke <rpmahnke at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> That's nonsense. There's a lot of good journalism out there.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:34 PM, Atticus Pinecone <atticuspinecone at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> America & American journalism have relatively short & interwoven histories... What are the positive journalism examples? We can all name absolutely catastrophic negative ones... 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Almost seems like the way NYC & Boston are built on landfill... America is built on lies & slander...
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 14, 2017, at 3:17 PM, Robert Mahnke <rpmahnke at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The centrism of Bothsiderism ultimately comes not from an interest in truth, or any other ideology, but in a desire to not offend people so as to keep selling ads. If right-wingers move right, so does the center. It's relative positioning. But a lot of journalists see it as a profound philosophical commitment essential to journalism.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 11:53 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I mostly agree with you take.  But the "centrist voices" of Bothsiderism has nothing to do with actual centrism (like truthiness has no relation to truth).  There are such things as facts.  As the Right becomes ever more extreme, the "center" is no longer near any rational center (asymmetry).  Norms of discourse and behavior are obliterated by the Right as they embrace all manner of evil.  This has been our ever-increasing political reality for decades.  Trump has pushed it so far that it can no longer be ignored, and that's a good thing, I think...
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> David Morris
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 	Virus-free. www.avg.com
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Robert Mahnke <rpmahnke at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Bothsiderism is a result of previous media environments where the fixed costs of running a local newspaper or TV station are high and there are network effects (e.g., people want to advertise where the viewers are), so for business reasons it made sense for outlets to adopt centrist voices that don't offend anyone, letting them sell more advertisements. You can call this whoredom if you want, but it's the function of letting the market function. It makes less sense now because the internet makes it so much cheaper to publish, and that has led to a proliferation of outlets (although not as much in local news, which still has substantial fixed costs of newsgathering that deters entry). FOX News has made a lot of money by focusing on right-wing viewers, and leaving everyone else to other outlets. Google and Facebook have made far more money by giving people a way to find what they want to hear, unfortunately in news as well as a lot of other things. If only someone could figure out a way to make money in the pursuit of truth.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 5:26 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/06/yes-polarization-is-asymmetric-and-conservatives-are-worse/373044/
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.  Bothsiderism is a result of media whoredom.  Ratings over truth (and morality).
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2.  Republicans are the real problem, on many levels.  Trump has pushed this reality to the forefront of everyone's consciousness, except for the Walking Dead.  We should thank him for that.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> David Morris
> 
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