Asymmetrical Polarization

Fri Dec 15 08:05:54 CST 2017

"NOT genuine" of course. Sorry.

On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:02 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:

> And I apologize publicly for suggesting your pseudonym was genuine---that
> is, not an infamous personage from the Plist past.
> Apology is only good IF you are not that person.
>
> Only other thing to say, is there are/is lots of media digging out the
> truth these days. Probably more than ever. Not one "exact' media
> in my list but many.
>
> Take Care,
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 8:56 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think your question has no answer as you frame it.
>>
>> Good luck.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 8:54 AM, Atticus Pinecone <
>> atticuspinecone at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm dead serious.
>>>
>>> The bad far outweighs the good. You all—I hope—recall which wars and
>>> military actions began with lies. Lies in the exact media I "must not be
>>> following". And I know you have a vague, if not good, idea of the civilian
>>> death counts—so I'm really asking, what's one example of journalism that
>>> offsets one million dead civilians?
>>>
>>> 100,000? One thousand? 43?
>>>
>>> I sense that people don't like having their heads yanked out of the sand.
>>>
>>> And I'm not saying there aren't any—but I sense the books don't come
>>> close to balancing.
>>>
>>> So with that framing, I hope you don't still think my question is a
>>> waste.
>>>
>>> On Dec 15, 2017, at 5:31 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> You know the problems with answering your question Atticus? Some on this
>>> list will start denying any real examples by org associationism--
>>> the new Left McCarthyites.
>>>
>>>  If you don't already know SOME answers, then you
>>> must not be following anywhere where one can get such examples.
>>>
>>> So, although there is a suspicion re your pseudonym and a suggestion
>>> that you are more shit-stirrer--I used to know the Yiddish---than
>>> interested, if you genuinely want some answers, write me offlist. Morris
>>> and lots of others who know answers don't need to waste their time. Nor
>>> I mine, unless.....
>>>
>>> If you don't already know some investigative reporting that
>>> has brought down generals, won a Senate race, revealed the Stuxnet
>>> attack, reported on intelligence secrecies and actions
>>> up until one court decision away from a long prison sentence, brought us
>>> Romney's 47% tape and, of course, all the being-proven truths about
>>> the Russian attacks on the US election, then ....
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 4:51 PM, Atticus Pinecone <
>>> atticuspinecone at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't doubt it. Just asking for examples...
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 14, 2017, at 4:37 PM, Robert Mahnke <rpmahnke at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> That's nonsense. There's a lot of good journalism out there.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:34 PM, Atticus Pinecone <
>>>> atticuspinecone at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> America & American journalism have relatively short & interwoven
>>>>> histories... What are the positive journalism examples? We can all name
>>>>> absolutely catastrophic negative ones...
>>>>>
>>>>> Almost seems like the way NYC & Boston are built on landfill...
>>>>> America is built on lies & slander...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 14, 2017, at 3:17 PM, Robert Mahnke <rpmahnke at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The centrism of Bothsiderism ultimately comes not from an interest in
>>>>> truth, or any other ideology, but in a desire to not offend people so as to
>>>>> keep selling ads. If right-wingers move right, so does the center. It's
>>>>> relative positioning. But a lot of journalists see it as a profound
>>>>> philosophical commitment essential to journalism.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 11:53 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I mostly agree with you take.  But the "centrist voices" of
>>>>>> Bothsiderism has nothing to do with actual centrism (like truthiness has no
>>>>>> relation to truth).  There are such things as facts.  As the Right becomes
>>>>>> ever more extreme, the "center" is no longer near any rational center
>>>>>> (asymmetry).  Norms of discourse and behavior are obliterated by the Right
>>>>>> as they embrace all manner of evil.  This has been our ever-increasing
>>>>>> political reality for decades.  Trump has pushed it so far that it can no
>>>>>> longer be ignored, and that's a good thing, I think...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David Morris
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free.
>>>>>> www.avg.com
>>>>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
>>>>>> <#m_4235942245585848037_m_2467000184828388671_m_-8800999788803297169_m_-3085010161441257086_m_-1114437254035411639_m_7839452131827110361_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Robert Mahnke <rpmahnke at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bothsiderism is a result of previous media environments where the
>>>>>>> fixed costs of running a local newspaper or TV station are high and there
>>>>>>> are network effects (e.g., people want to advertise where the viewers are),
>>>>>>> so for business reasons it made sense for outlets to adopt centrist voices
>>>>>>> that don't offend anyone, letting them sell more advertisements. You can
>>>>>>> call this whoredom if you want, but it's the function of letting the market
>>>>>>> function. It makes less sense now because the internet makes it so much
>>>>>>> cheaper to publish, and that has led to a proliferation of outlets
>>>>>>> (although not as much in local news, which still has substantial fixed
>>>>>>> costs of newsgathering that deters entry). FOX News has made a lot of money
>>>>>>> by focusing on right-wing viewers, and leaving everyone else to other
>>>>>>> outlets. Google and Facebook have made far more money by giving people a
>>>>>>> way to find what they want to hear, unfortunately in news as well as a lot
>>>>>>> of other things. If only someone could figure out a way to make money in
>>>>>>> the pursuit of truth.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 5:26 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/06/yes-pol
>>>>>>>> arization-is-asymmetric-and-conservatives-are-worse/373044/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1.  Bothsiderism is a result of media whoredom.  Ratings over truth
>>>>>>>> (and morality).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2.  Republicans are the real problem, on many levels.  Trump has
>>>>>>>> pushed this reality to the forefront of everyone's consciousness, except
>>>>>>>> for the Walking Dead.  We should thank him for that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> David Morris
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://waste.org/pipermail/pynchon-l/attachments/20171215/8112709c/attachment.html>