Too bad, so sad.

[Mark Kohut]

Your LOADED use of one example I USED because of the Iraq War and the
NYTimes you did is
irresponsible.....

it is another way those who ignore the points made prolong with irrelevant
anti-logic....so one
who bothers to engage---most on this list have given up on your brick wall
circularity....



On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> Your notion that the crimes of journalists against the truth and the
> constitution can be reduced to Judy Miler is laughable. That is only one of
> many  examples of egregious and murderous lies.  I have been watching this
> shit go down since the Vietnam war.
>
> Also Matthew I never said anything against journalism as truth telling or
> accurate reporting or questioning and exposing the lies of Governments and
> politicians. And I certainly understand the dangers faced by journalists
> who tell the truth in other countries as well as the US. Many crimes
> against journalists are happening in countries we support like Egypt,
> Turkey, Kenya and Saudi Arabia.  This persecution happened as abundantly
> under Obama as now.
>
> What Mark T and I are talking about is the scale of killing produced by
> politicians and journalists who peddle hate and lies rather than balanced
> reporting. The US has a history that caused Martin Luther King to describe
> it as "the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today.” I believe
> that still holds true. Journalism that acts as a brain dead megaphone for
> war has contributed a great deal to that reality and deserves
> accountability.
>
> The arguments excusing this mass killing and the press that endorsed and
> heroized it makes me sick.  I will never back down from this. I do not
> believe any of the crap that devalues  the human lives of those who live in
> Libya, Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Chile, ………or the whole sickeng too long
> list of Americas postWW2 imperial wars and coups. Some of you want an
> America and a Democratic party that never existed. No reform is possible
> without admitting that it is needed.
>
>  I am not in any way endorsing Trump’s war on truth. But I am not ready to
> forgive all the coverage given to him by the mainstream press and that now
> strings the public along with this Russiagate crap with no evidence.
>
> > On Dec 18, 2017, at 5:21 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Maybe Joseph is, as I just sent regarding Thomas...
> > ." a critical mass" is pretty tough to measure for even 'the newspaper
> of record' and all the other media which it influences.
> > and when Judith Miller's sources--her supposed bedmate Chalabi---lied
> and deceived, as did she---and lost her career over it, too little too
> late, we can now, smart critical thinkers that we are, blame the whole
> NYTimes, "mainstream media',whatever that is, now throw in the Wa Po and
> many others because one very major story in the 'newspaper of record' was
> because it--all the editors and publishers---were being played, well, not
> too smart in my judgment.
> >
> > And as I just said to Thomas, would that administration NOT have gone to
> war anyway?
> >
> > Some, say Barack Obama, saw through the evil of an impending Iraq war.
> Many others too, esp all over media that I bet plisters followed. In fact,
> I bet most plisters
> > were opposed, whaddya think? So now they can displace their anger on the
> NYT and other 'mainstream media'? Okay.
> >
> > Here's my attempt at an aphorism of the day: When you can find out that
> stories in double-sourced (at least) independently-verified stories in
> media papers and
> > other vehicles are wrong---you know you have a way of measuring truth.
> >
> > and a simple social observation about a word: Have you all noticed how
> the word 'lie' has come often to be used, even by many over trivial things,
> to mean a mistake,
> > a wrongness, a nonfact, a non-truth independent of an actual willed
> intention?
> >
> > Later,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 5:01 AM, Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I imagine Joseph might be referring to the role played by such august
> journals as the New York Times in getting a critical mass of the American
> population to switch from opposing to supporting the US invasion of Iraq in
> 2003, a folly which has led to the unnecessary, superfluous deaths of
> upwards of a million innocent souls so far, and counting.
> >
> > I don't, however, blame "mainstream American journalism" any more than I
> do the populace that allowed itself to be persuaded. And of course, much
> less than the actual criminals at the top, many of whom knew that the
> rationale they proffered for their businessman's war* of first resort was
> nothing but a tissue of lies, because they knew that if they revealed their
> REAL reasons for the invasion (which, to be exceedingly fair, I'm sure they
> thought were good reasons), the American people wouldn't be so gung-ho for
> bloodshed.
> >
> > J
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 3:55 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Joseph T:
> > "I agree that mainstream american journalism is complicit in much more
> mass murder than any good they may have done."
> >
> > A remark so ignorant, even, maybe, so inherently vile in even pretending
> this makes measurable sense about valid journalism, that one shudders for
> the polity from the other side.
> >
> > So it goes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
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