Too bad, so sad.

[Mark Kohut]

Joseph,

I,-- I shan't write "we'-- get it--the irrevocable deaths of innocents,
millions, is a horror almost too much to bear.

Stop there and continue feeling it....yet, live to change it and notice
where and when it has changed, I say. But that's just me.

Mark

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 12:27 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:

> Your LOADED use of one example I USED because of the Iraq War and the
> NYTimes you did is
> irresponsible.....
>
> it is another way those who ignore the points made prolong with irrelevant
> anti-logic....so one
> who bothers to engage---most on this list have given up on your brick wall
> circularity....
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>
>> Your notion that the crimes of journalists against the truth and the
>> constitution can be reduced to Judy Miler is laughable. That is only one of
>> many  examples of egregious and murderous lies.  I have been watching this
>> shit go down since the Vietnam war.
>>
>> Also Matthew I never said anything against journalism as truth telling or
>> accurate reporting or questioning and exposing the lies of Governments and
>> politicians. And I certainly understand the dangers faced by journalists
>> who tell the truth in other countries as well as the US. Many crimes
>> against journalists are happening in countries we support like Egypt,
>> Turkey, Kenya and Saudi Arabia.  This persecution happened as abundantly
>> under Obama as now.
>>
>> What Mark T and I are talking about is the scale of killing produced by
>> politicians and journalists who peddle hate and lies rather than balanced
>> reporting. The US has a history that caused Martin Luther King to describe
>> it as "the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today.” I believe
>> that still holds true. Journalism that acts as a brain dead megaphone for
>> war has contributed a great deal to that reality and deserves
>> accountability.
>>
>> The arguments excusing this mass killing and the press that endorsed and
>> heroized it makes me sick.  I will never back down from this. I do not
>> believe any of the crap that devalues  the human lives of those who live in
>> Libya, Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Chile, ………or the whole sickeng too long
>> list of Americas postWW2 imperial wars and coups. Some of you want an
>> America and a Democratic party that never existed. No reform is possible
>> without admitting that it is needed.
>>
>>  I am not in any way endorsing Trump’s war on truth. But I am not ready
>> to forgive all the coverage given to him by the mainstream press and that
>> now strings the public along with this Russiagate crap with no evidence.
>>
>> > On Dec 18, 2017, at 5:21 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Maybe Joseph is, as I just sent regarding Thomas...
>> > ." a critical mass" is pretty tough to measure for even 'the newspaper
>> of record' and all the other media which it influences.
>> > and when Judith Miller's sources--her supposed bedmate Chalabi---lied
>> and deceived, as did she---and lost her career over it, too little too
>> late, we can now, smart critical thinkers that we are, blame the whole
>> NYTimes, "mainstream media',whatever that is, now throw in the Wa Po and
>> many others because one very major story in the 'newspaper of record' was
>> because it--all the editors and publishers---were being played, well, not
>> too smart in my judgment.
>> >
>> > And as I just said to Thomas, would that administration NOT have gone
>> to war anyway?
>> >
>> > Some, say Barack Obama, saw through the evil of an impending Iraq war.
>> Many others too, esp all over media that I bet plisters followed. In fact,
>> I bet most plisters
>> > were opposed, whaddya think? So now they can displace their anger on
>> the NYT and other 'mainstream media'? Okay.
>> >
>> > Here's my attempt at an aphorism of the day: When you can find out that
>> stories in double-sourced (at least) independently-verified stories in
>> media papers and
>> > other vehicles are wrong---you know you have a way of measuring truth.
>> >
>> > and a simple social observation about a word: Have you all noticed how
>> the word 'lie' has come often to be used, even by many over trivial things,
>> to mean a mistake,
>> > a wrongness, a nonfact, a non-truth independent of an actual willed
>> intention?
>> >
>> > Later,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 5:01 AM, Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > I imagine Joseph might be referring to the role played by such august
>> journals as the New York Times in getting a critical mass of the American
>> population to switch from opposing to supporting the US invasion of Iraq in
>> 2003, a folly which has led to the unnecessary, superfluous deaths of
>> upwards of a million innocent souls so far, and counting.
>> >
>> > I don't, however, blame "mainstream American journalism" any more than
>> I do the populace that allowed itself to be persuaded. And of course, much
>> less than the actual criminals at the top, many of whom knew that the
>> rationale they proffered for their businessman's war* of first resort was
>> nothing but a tissue of lies, because they knew that if they revealed their
>> REAL reasons for the invasion (which, to be exceedingly fair, I'm sure they
>> thought were good reasons), the American people wouldn't be so gung-ho for
>> bloodshed.
>> >
>> > J
>> >
>> > On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 3:55 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Joseph T:
>> > "I agree that mainstream american journalism is complicit in much more
>> mass murder than any good they may have done."
>> >
>> > A remark so ignorant, even, maybe, so inherently vile in even
>> pretending this makes measurable sense about valid journalism, that one
>> shudders for the polity from the other side.
>> >
>> > So it goes.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> -
>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>
>
>
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