Grace again. Misc.

[David Morris]

More accurately, Free Will is the rival of Grace, not its opposite.

On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 6:58 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:

> In Calvinism and other religious traditions, grace gets earned--or shown--
> by human free will choices.
>
> if grace is not earned or shown-- by free will human choices, then grace
> as Pynchon uses it, is unearned, totally unexpected (by Lew and in the
> text) and is somehow a function of the cosmos. Chance or otherwise. No?
>
> On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 7:41 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If Free Will replaces Grace, then it is it's equal, not its opposite.
>>
>> David Morris
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 5:27 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Now THAT'S an answer I did not expect---nor really know (although I know
>>> some of that shit from that tradition).
>>> Another theologian rendered into the dustbin of churchyards because of
>>> Augustine's dominance.
>>>
>>> A heretic, P's tradition. One might say a theological preterite,
>>> analogously speaking? As Bailey alludes, and Morris fills in:
>>> a kind of theological shlemiel, maybe? Profane Pelagius.
>>>
>>> I'm going to suggest that as Pynchon transformed the concept of Grace
>>> within the religious tradition, for him
>>> in the fiction, it became like "the free will" of the cosmos---which
>>> might all be predetermined, of course, per your observation---
>>> when Lew experienced it unexpectedly.....when Against the Day ends....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In the way back, Pelagius (St Agustine's antagonist) thought we didn't
>>>> need Grace--that our free will was sufficient to overcome sin. So, the
>>>> opposite of Grace is Free Will.  Which science now says doesn't exist.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 4:03 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From the wayback (but eternal?) religious uses, the opposite might be
>>>>> damnation.
>>>>>
>>>>> What might it be in Pynchon's transformation of the meaning of the
>>>>> word?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 3:28 PM, Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You are the native speaker, Mark, but I would say it's bullshit if
>>>>>> you don't provide context. What kind of grace? You have disgrace, you have
>>>>>> clumsiness, I'm sure you have more opposites of grace.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2017-07-29 21:11 GMT+02:00 Erik T. Burns <eburns at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I suggest "trump"
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>> From: Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: ‎7/‎29/‎2017 20:06
>>>>>>> To: pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>>>>>> Subject: Grace again. Misc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gracelessness is an absence of grace, but the English language
>>>>>>> lacks a word for the opposite of grace.--Cass Sunstein, very recent
>>>>>>> essay.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
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