Need to hear what some smart people have to say about this.

Sun Oct 29 12:33:11 CDT 2017

In case this was partially aimed at me, you bet your sweet bippy I see the
rising tide of dangerously fascistic anti-Semitism on the Far Right (and
acknowledge that there is, indeed, some of that on the conspiracy-minded
Left, which is my home base, so it is a source of some shame). I am not
even anti-Zionist. I admire Herzl and the leftish/democratic socialist
version of Zionism, and feel that Israel is now, and should be, the
homeland of the Jews. But the questions, I suppose, lie in, how best do we
get there, as a planetary community? Because as incredibly talented a
minority as they are, the Jews simply won't be able to do it entirely on
their own.

With love,
Jerky / Mark T.

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On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 6:57 PM, Laura Kelber <laurakelber at gmail.com> wrote:

> This is a painful topic for me. I loathe the right-wing militaristic
> Zionistic wing of Jewish identity. I come from the communist and/or
> politically progressive, secular strain that helped shape the intellectual
> life of NYC when I was growing up in the 60s. Now it's the rightwing
> Orthodox and Hasidic Jews that dominate the Jewish community. Where the
> hell did all the secular, progressive Jews go?!
>
> But much as I loathe both the American and Israeli strains of Zionism, I'm
> hypersensitive to the antisemitism that simmers below the surface of a lot
> of so-called progressive groups and individuals. A failure to recognize and
> protest the antisemitism of the alt-right and white supremacists, for
> example. A willingness to buy into the "rich Jewish banker" and
> "Jewish-controlled media" stereotypes. Hell, I buy into some of those
> stereotypes myself, sometimes. But I'm allowed to, because I'm Jewish.
> Non-Jews, proceed with caution! I don't need a disclaimer about how your
> best friend is Jewish, but I do need to hear an acknowledgement that
> antisemitism exists and that Jews of any ideology have a right to be
> paranoid about it.
>
> Even though antisemitic signs were prominently displayed in Charlotte, VA,
> none of the knee jerk lefty emails I got mentioned antisemitism. It just
> isn't sexy to decry antisemitism. Look, I can understand that. Black people
> are beaten, murdered and incarcerated all over this country every fucking
> day. That's not happening to Jews.
>
> But there is and always has been an antisemitic strain in this country,
> and, perhaps stoked by the internet, it's become particularly virulent
> lately. It was ever-present in the construction industry when I worked
> there in the 80s and 90s. Job sites were frequently racially and ethnically
> segregated, and I was often placed in the "Jew crew." Not uncommon for us
> to bear the brunt of being "tightwad Jews" or, in my case, a "Jewess cunt."
> "Hey, you know who the world's biggest cunt is? Hitler, 'cause he couldn't
> even finish the job!" And so on.
>
> Just recently made the mistake of reading the comments on a mainstream
> news story about Weinstein. The comments started in on the "typical Jewish"
> behavior of that trio - Weinstein, Polanski and Woody Allen, then on to how
> they were a disgrace to the white race, and finally, to an argument about
> whether Jews could even be considered white.
>
> So, yeah, it's obnoxious when anyone who's legitimately outraged by
> Israel's racist/militaristic actions gets branded an antisemite. But it
> would be nice if those same anti-zionists expressed a little dismay over
> the seething hatred of Jews that so many non-Jews seem to foster. Because
> it's pretty disturbing.
>
> Laura
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2017 4:41 PM, "da kid" <peterock86 at live.com> wrote:
>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* da kid <peterock86 at live.com>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 28, 2017 8:05:33 AM
>> *To:* Mark Thibodeau
>> *Subject:* Re: Need to hear what some smart people have to say about
>> this.
>>
>> Im not that smart but I think it is really really really sad that people
>> feel they have to write a paragraph that attempts to prove they don't hate
>> Jews before they can criticize Israel. I am also what you call a
>> philo-semite but Israel's treatment of Palestine is abhorrent. The recent
>> hubbub about Hebron, which is in Palestine, not being called Israeli is
>> another recent example of false "anti-Semitism" accusations being thrown
>> about. There is definitely a rich and powerful right wing pro Israeli lobby
>> in America. That's not antiSemitic to say is it?
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* owner-pynchon-l at waste.org <owner-pynchon-l at waste.org> on behalf
>> of Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 28, 2017 3:52:59 AM
>> *To:* pynchon -l
>> *Subject:* Need to hear what some smart people have to say about this.
>>
>> First things first... and I hate that I have to state this up front (but
>> considering the subject matter, I feel that I must)... I am not an
>> anti-Semite. In fact, if anything, I'm a Judeophile, or philo-Semite. Many
>> of my heroes are Jews. I think Jewish women are among the world's must
>> beautiful. I have many Jewish friends, some of whom are among my closest
>> and most beloved. In short, I am no Jew-hater.
>>
>> But I'm also a huge fan or the musician Roger Waters. A lifelong admirer
>> of both his music and his obvious sincere, passionately held beliefs.
>> Lately, I've noticed a significant uptick in attacks on Waters from
>> pro-Israeli news outlets. This week, I learned that there is actually an
>> entire documentary film that's been shot, apparently with the sole
>> objective of smearing him as an anti-Semite.
>>
>> While Waters is definitely an opponent of the current regime in Israel,
>> and an advocate for Palestinian rights up to and including lending his
>> support to the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement, I also
>> have seen a lot of accusations made against him with little to zero
>> supporting evidence (video, audio, etc). And I definitely think the attacks
>> on him have taken on a dangerously aggressive tone.
>>
>> And then, today, I ran across this article...
>>
>> *https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.819132?v=448801475EBF52877C3C6DDD9BA51DFF
>> <https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.819132?v=448801475EBF52877C3C6DDD9BA51DFF>*
>>
>> My first compulsion was to check with Snopes, even though the original
>> article is from an Israeli paper, just to see if maybe I'd fallen for an
>> elaborate prank. There I find...
>>
>> https://www.snopes.com/texas-harvey-israel/
>>
>> And as I read, my blood runs a little bit cold.
>>
>> So I guess my question to you folks here is...
>>
>> What the fuck is going on here? And in what universe does anyone think
>> denying aid to victims of natural disasters unless they pledge never to
>> take part in the BDS movement isn't going to backfire spectacularly?
>>
>> Jerky
>>
>>
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>>
>
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