Drugless Paths to the Mystical Experience

[David Morris]

OK.  So, since we're doing "Visions" now, mine was way back, six years ago,
when Kundalini first arose. No drugs were involved:

My  K-meditation posture was prone (Buddhist endorsed), for about an hour
each AM.  I focused on intense Kundalini energy movements in my body that
transitioned between the classical 4 or 5 eastern cosmos elements of
creatiom, my body would feel as if being "fracked" rock, and then I would
feel liquid filling those cracks.  Next liquid dissolved fracked rock, and
then roots would invade and break up all for growth.  Then air could flow
through. I could feel all of those sensations.  But that wasn't the vision
that I recall now.

At the calming end of a meditation, all my vision inside went pitch black.
Then I saw reflections of light on a shiny black surface like obsidian.
The light relocations on all black became the very close up  visage of a
wild woman, eyes glaring wide, teeth-baring grimace smile.  It wasn't till
I told this story to a friend that I learned Kali Ma was now my goddess.
She is Queen of Kundalini.

David Morris






On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 6:22 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:

> Rich,
>
> If you were so inclined, this might make a great short story.
>
> David Morris
>
> On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 5:38 PM rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> all this talk reminds me of the microdosing movement--what folly. can we
>> escape, mother? is she too part of the corporate swill? it would seem.
>> entangled in your own dreams as the song goes. but as 70s pathetic as it
>> was before, now it's just insolent.
>> who can expect to nudge a mystical experience? after a while a brief
>> glimpse of a dark red cardinal, how can any drug compare to that? drugs are
>> a tool, yes. but the self life is short.
>> i once had a mystical experience. ive been told we can only expect a
>> couple in a lifetime. i had an image in my head, mary as mother of doves
>> (fairly standard icongraphy), but I had this picture of her doves in her
>> hand around our head by her feet, a ring of them. i happened to be walking
>> to class at Pratt Institute one day about 25 yrs ago around that time, head
>> down, it was almost like a nagging thing but in a good way. anyway i get to
>> the campus crossing the lawn with that in my mind and i looked up for no
>> apparent reason and there it was: a homeless woman in a dirty ragged
>> overcoat feeding pigeons from her hand around her head by her feet, a ring
>> of them. it was only a split second moment but at that moment in that
>> instance my heart i knew that was mary. and then it was gone. im not sure i
>> was too mindful in class that day. and in the explanation in words it's
>> just impossible to describe. i may have mentioned this already here. sure,
>> maybe a coincidence, brain chemistry, suggestion, but like love it felt
>> some sort of confirmation, something I knew that couldnt put into words but
>> knew, something powerful, was in the world. i wasnt particularly religious
>> mind you, but it felt as if i was hit with something between the eyes a
>> beam and for that moment i was somewhere (and someone) else. and if i had
>> to put into words it was precious. and it wasnt the religious connotation
>> though that helped I suppose. it was simply what it was. something behind
>> the fear, the veil of our existence and it was comforting even in only a
>> glimpse.
>>
>> rich
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 4:34 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Another thought:  Drugs used for mystical insight might be like
>>> oracle/divination vehicles, like I Ching or Taro or Runes, etc.  They can
>>> provide insight, speaking directly to intuition, smack upside the head of
>>> one hard to hear.  But even such physically benign vehicles should be
>>> consulted sparingly, not used like the daily rag astrology fortune.
>>> Otherwise they lose their numinousity.  The seeker's ability to see, if
>>> used too often, becomes dulled.
>>>
>>> David Morris
>>>
>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 2:51 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Like I said, if you want "mystical experiences," drugs are fine.  And
>>> it's
>>> > cool that they can facilitate breakthroughs from addictions or PTSD.
>>> They
>>> > can also cause lasting mental damage.
>>> >
>>> > But their immediate effects are fleeting for most, and if done too
>>> often
>>> > they "lose you in situ," as the Tragically Hip's late Gord Donnie sang.
>>> > Drugs are an unsustainable *spiritual* path.  So, in that sense at
>>> least,
>>> > they are less true.
>>> >
>>> > A sustained awakening, experiencing it as the new foundational real (as
>>> > opposed to a carnival ride), requires quieting the mind so that the
>>> depths
>>> > can emerge in longer and longer cycles, and eventually become stable
>>> and
>>> > true.
>>> >
>>> > David Morris
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 7:48 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> DMT is the most powerful hallucinatory chemical known and is
>>> endogenously
>>> >> produced. It is part of our own chemistry and the chemistry of
>>> >> life/reality. I think there are probably advantages to non drug
>>> approaches
>>> >> to visionary states, the Buddhists certainly think so, and I doubt
>>> they
>>> >> came to that view by completely rejecting the value of hallucinatory
>>> >> visions. The Tibetan and Southeast Asian branches of Buddhist art
>>> seems to
>>> >> value such visions, including the sexual and terrifying. As an artist
>>> and
>>> >> seeker who has always had access to  internal and occasionally
>>> external
>>> >> visionary experiences but is generally at home in day to day life and
>>> never
>>> >> struggled with psychotic states,  I feel no particular prejudice
>>> against
>>> >> plant medicines etc.  The idea that they are cheap or easy way to
>>> spiritual
>>> >> insight feels false. Hallucinatory substances are not easy, but
>>> neither do
>>> >> I see them as heroic. To me, spiritual heroism has to do with abiding
>>> in
>>> >> love and generosity, finding a way to serve in the human community
>>> with
>>> >> grace. But humans get stuck and it seems that holotropic medicines can
>>> >> address that problem when a person lacks the discipline or
>>> understading
>>> >> that brings them to a practice like meditation or Jigong.  The
>>> efficacy of
>>> >> MDMA in treating PTSD is a good example, or the studies on psylocibin
>>> in
>>> >> helping free cancer patients from the fear of death.
>>> >>
>>> >> I think of hallucinatory visions as a means by which lots of
>>> information
>>> >> is compressed into a visual form and often into something rather like
>>> a
>>> >> persona. The meaning does not immeditely reveal itself but requires a
>>> kind
>>> >> of dialog to unpack. In my experience fear inhibits that dialog and
>>> >> love/fearlessness opens it and makes it valuable.The degree to which
>>> we are
>>> >> in dialog with other spirit beings of intelligences is open to debate
>>> but I
>>> >> personally think there really are many voices and there may be both
>>> >> collective and individual intelligences , mediated by the same kind of
>>> >> process that occurs in meditation, a cellular level dialog perhaps
>>> having
>>> >> to do with photon emissions from DNA as is suggested in Jeremy
>>> Narby’s work
>>> >> trying to connect ayahuasca shamanism to western scientific research(
>>> The
>>> >> Cosmic Serpent).
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> > On May 31, 2018, at 7:17 PM, Ian Livingston <
>>> igrlivingston at gmail.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Ain't nowhere you can go with drugs that you can't get more
>>> genuinely
>>> >> and
>>> >> > enduringly to with mind training.
>>> >> > Well, except for the hallucinations, and those are hallucinations,
>>> not
>>> >> > mystical experience.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:32 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> Smoke,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I think most teachers would disapprove of your seeking after
>>> "mystical
>>> >> >> experiences."  But maybe you just are using the wrong terms.  If
>>> what
>>> >> you
>>> >> >> want is an "experience,"  why not just use drugs?  The "without
>>> drugs"
>>> >> part
>>> >> >> implies you want something more authentic, and thus more "true?"
>>> This
>>> >> >> brings on the subject of "mystical."   Here's Webster:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Definition of mystical
>>> >> >> 1a *: *having a spiritual meaning or reality that is neither
>>> apparent
>>> >> to
>>> >> >> the senses nor obvious to the intelligence
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>   - the mysticalfood of the sacrament
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> b *: *involving or having the nature of an individual's direct
>>> >> subjective
>>> >> >> communion with God or ultimate reality
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>   - the mysticalexperience of the Inner Light
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> So the "mystical" implies a hidden realm/reality, and even more so
>>> >> Ultimate
>>> >> >> Reality.  This subject can and does go on forever, so I'll just
>>> point
>>> >> you
>>> >> >> to a website that provides interviews with people from MANY
>>> different
>>> >> >> paths, many of whom have reached deep levels of spiritual
>>> >> >> realization/experience.  Most of these paths agree that what most
>>> >> people
>>> >> >> experience is an illusion or veil that can be seen through into a
>>> >> >> multi-faceted deeper reality.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Buddha at the Gas Pump:
>>> >> >> https://batgap.com/
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I experienced a Kundalini awakening over six years ago, but I
>>> didn't
>>> >> seek
>>> >> >> it, nor did I know what it was at first (thank God for the
>>> internet).
>>> >> I
>>> >> >> was just trying to get myself stable via meditation, having been
>>> thrown
>>> >> >> into emotional turmoil by the end of a 28 year marriage.  Then it
>>> >> >> happened.  I didn't choose Kundalini.  It chose me.  I think that
>>> is a
>>> >> >> common aspect of many mystical experiences.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> David Morris
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:38 PM, Smoke Teff <smoketeff at gmail.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>> The value of mushrooms has not depreciated in my mind (though
>>> many of
>>> >> my
>>> >> >>> psychedelic experiences before doing an ayahuasca ceremony do seem
>>> >> >> somewhat
>>> >> >>> like a child tinkering with an elementary spiritual chemistry set,
>>> >> >> without
>>> >> >>> having even read the instructions).
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> But I’m interested in getting there mostly with the body
>>> technology I
>>> >> was
>>> >> >>> given—want to cultivate a path I can replicate in most/any
>>> environs
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Fasting and sleep deprivation have been useful in the past seem
>>> like
>>> >> they
>>> >> >>> involve unnecessary suffering, especially for a regular practice
>>> that
>>> >> >> will
>>> >> >>> integrate with the rest of my life at this moment—and they
>>> associate
>>> >> too
>>> >> >>> closely to me with other familiar ways of being
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Art gets me a decent part of the way sometimes
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> I know at least Morris will have some kundalini to tell me about.
>>> I’m
>>> >> >>> thinking of things more along those lines.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Breathing, movement, meditation
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>> On May 31, 2018, at 12:31 PM, Glenn fuller <
>>> >> glennfuller at sbcglobal.net>
>>> >> >>> wrote:
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> Fasting and Sleep Deprivation.
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> On Thursday, May 31, 2018 10:20 AM, Allan Balliett <
>>> >> >>> allan.balliett at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> Convince yourself that ‘shrooms aren’t a drug!
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> Are you reading the new Pollan?
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> ALLAN in WV, where the patties are in bloom
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:59 PM Smoke Teff <smoketeff at gmail.com
>>> >
>>> >> >> wrote:
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>> Soliciting recommendations and favorites
>>> >> >>>>> --
>>> >> >>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>> --
>>> >> >>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>      Virus-free. www.avg.com
>>> >> >>> --
>>> >> >>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >> --
>>> >> >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> >> >>
>>> >> > --
>>> >> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>> --
>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>
>>