Such dreams as stuff is made on

[David Morris]

This conversation has branched wildly from Monte's original question:
agency of exploited commodity welcoming exploitation for occult reasons (is
that correct?) in literature other than Pynchon.  An obvious non-occult
reason would be revenge. An occult one might be karma.  The golem might fit
both, because its motives are obscure.  The question hints at a deep
existential state with a very cynical bent.

David Morris

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 9:50 PM Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
wrote:

> The modern dance section from V. certainly has the feel of Parisian
> fin-de-siecle post-Romantic "Satanism" to it.
>
>  Jerky
>
> On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 10:16 AM Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Kafka, anyone?
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 6:30 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I might add in a general way that many writers in what we might call
> the
> > > Gothic nightmare genre
> > > could fit the bill but often outside a technology trope, maybe?
> Fulfilling
> > > the literal question asked in the last paragraph.
> > >  Poe's Tell-Tale Heart tale comes to mind as a pure-enough example. He
> has
> > > more, of course.
> > > . Re the technology trope, Frankenstein sorta fits, correct? Melmoth
> the
> > > Wanderer?
> > > The Monk? Gothic castles, do they count?
> > >
> > > Just thinkin' unbidden.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 5:27 PM Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I think Mark has a point there (with anybody else I would have said,
> is
> > > on
> > > > the mark there): now that he mentions Burroughs I think he did it in
> > > Naked
> > > > Lunch, and, as Mark would say, we know that TRP has read NL. But he
> goes
> > > > further, of course.
> > > >
> > > > Am So., 9. Dez. 2018 um 22:54 Uhr schrieb Mark Kohut <
> > > mark.kohut at gmail.com
> > > > >:
> > > >
> > > >> I've read many fewer Burroughs than he's written --and that long
> ago;
> > > >> long before Pynchon immersion --but does he fit your bill?
> > > >>
> > > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > > >>
> > > >> > On Dec 9, 2018, at 12:54 PM, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > One of Pynchon's master tropes is to personify -- ascribe
> *agency* to
> > > --
> > > >> > resources and principles taken up by technology: coal and oil and
> > > >> calculus
> > > >> > and control theory in GR, astronomy and cartography in M&D,
> > > electricity
> > > >> and
> > > >> > aviation and silver halides in AtD, virtual "real estate" and its
> > > >> > monetization in BE, usw.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > His most-cited surfacing (and questioning!) of this is Enzian at
> the
> > > >> ruined
> > > >> > -- so They say -- Jamf works in Hamburg (518-521), alternating
> between
> > > >> > "Technologies" lusting for their funding and "do you think
> we’d’ve had
> > > >> the
> > > >> > Rocket if someone, some specific somebody with a name and a penis
> > > hadn’t
> > > >> > wanted to chuck a ton of Amatol 300 miles and blow up a block
> full of
> > > >> > civilians? Go ahead, capitalize the T on technology, deify it if
> it’ll
> > > >> make
> > > >> > you feel less responsible -- but it puts you in with the neutered,
> > > >> > brother..."
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Can you suggest other major authors/works that make strong
> thematic
> > > use
> > > >> of
> > > >> > this trope? In which it's stated or hinted that the "stuff"
> involved
> > > in
> > > >> > characters' drives and conflicts *wants* to be exploited, for ends
> > > that
> > > >> may
> > > >> > not be ours?
> > > >> > --
> > > >> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> > > >> --
> > > >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > --
> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> > >
> > --
> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>