Such dreams as stuff is made on

[Mark Thibodeau]

I apologize.

YOPJ

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 10:25 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This conversation has branched wildly from Monte's original question: agency of exploited commodity welcoming exploitation for occult reasons (is that correct?) in literature other than Pynchon.  An obvious non-occult reason would be revenge. An occult one might be karma.  The golem might fit both, because its motives are obscure.  The question hints at a deep existential state with a very cynical bent.
>
> David Morris
>
> On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 9:50 PM Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The modern dance section from V. certainly has the feel of Parisian
>> fin-de-siecle post-Romantic "Satanism" to it.
>>
>>  Jerky
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 10:16 AM Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Kafka, anyone?
>> >
>> > On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 6:30 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I might add in a general way that many writers in what we might call the
>> > > Gothic nightmare genre
>> > > could fit the bill but often outside a technology trope, maybe? Fulfilling
>> > > the literal question asked in the last paragraph.
>> > >  Poe's Tell-Tale Heart tale comes to mind as a pure-enough example. He has
>> > > more, of course.
>> > > . Re the technology trope, Frankenstein sorta fits, correct? Melmoth the
>> > > Wanderer?
>> > > The Monk? Gothic castles, do they count?
>> > >
>> > > Just thinkin' unbidden.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 5:27 PM Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > I think Mark has a point there (with anybody else I would have said, is
>> > > on
>> > > > the mark there): now that he mentions Burroughs I think he did it in
>> > > Naked
>> > > > Lunch, and, as Mark would say, we know that TRP has read NL. But he goes
>> > > > further, of course.
>> > > >
>> > > > Am So., 9. Dez. 2018 um 22:54 Uhr schrieb Mark Kohut <
>> > > mark.kohut at gmail.com
>> > > > >:
>> > > >
>> > > >> I've read many fewer Burroughs than he's written --and that long ago;
>> > > >> long before Pynchon immersion --but does he fit your bill?
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Sent from my iPhone
>> > > >>
>> > > >> > On Dec 9, 2018, at 12:54 PM, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com>
>> > > >> wrote:
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > One of Pynchon's master tropes is to personify -- ascribe *agency* to
>> > > --
>> > > >> > resources and principles taken up by technology: coal and oil and
>> > > >> calculus
>> > > >> > and control theory in GR, astronomy and cartography in M&D,
>> > > electricity
>> > > >> and
>> > > >> > aviation and silver halides in AtD, virtual "real estate" and its
>> > > >> > monetization in BE, usw.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > His most-cited surfacing (and questioning!) of this is Enzian at the
>> > > >> ruined
>> > > >> > -- so They say -- Jamf works in Hamburg (518-521), alternating between
>> > > >> > "Technologies" lusting for their funding and "do you think we’d’ve had
>> > > >> the
>> > > >> > Rocket if someone, some specific somebody with a name and a penis
>> > > hadn’t
>> > > >> > wanted to chuck a ton of Amatol 300 miles and blow up a block full of
>> > > >> > civilians? Go ahead, capitalize the T on technology, deify it if it’ll
>> > > >> make
>> > > >> > you feel less responsible -- but it puts you in with the neutered,
>> > > >> > brother..."
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > Can you suggest other major authors/works that make strong thematic
>> > > use
>> > > >> of
>> > > >> > this trope? In which it's stated or hinted that the "stuff" involved
>> > > in
>> > > >> > characters' drives and conflicts *wants* to be exploited, for ends
>> > > that
>> > > >> may
>> > > >> > not be ours?
>> > > >> > --
>> > > >> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> > > >> --
>> > > >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> > > >>
>> > > >
>> > > --
>> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> > >
>> > --
>> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> --
>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l