Such dreams as stuff is made on

[David Morris]

Jerky,

God! Please don't do that. I didn't mean to chastise.

If I were to point to an example in Pynchon's work it would be Austra in
MD. Slaves are the ultimate technology. She was a willing tool with a view
toward deep revenge.

David Morris

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 10:35 PM Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I apologize.
>
> YOPJ
>
> On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 10:25 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > This conversation has branched wildly from Monte's original question:
> agency of exploited commodity welcoming exploitation for occult reasons (is
> that correct?) in literature other than Pynchon.  An obvious non-occult
> reason would be revenge. An occult one might be karma.  The golem might fit
> both, because its motives are obscure.  The question hints at a deep
> existential state with a very cynical bent.
> >
> > David Morris
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 9:50 PM Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> The modern dance section from V. certainly has the feel of Parisian
> >> fin-de-siecle post-Romantic "Satanism" to it.
> >>
> >>  Jerky
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 10:16 AM Ian Livingston <
> igrlivingston at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Kafka, anyone?
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 6:30 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > I might add in a general way that many writers in what we might
> call the
> >> > > Gothic nightmare genre
> >> > > could fit the bill but often outside a technology trope, maybe?
> Fulfilling
> >> > > the literal question asked in the last paragraph.
> >> > >  Poe's Tell-Tale Heart tale comes to mind as a pure-enough example.
> He has
> >> > > more, of course.
> >> > > . Re the technology trope, Frankenstein sorta fits, correct?
> Melmoth the
> >> > > Wanderer?
> >> > > The Monk? Gothic castles, do they count?
> >> > >
> >> > > Just thinkin' unbidden.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 5:27 PM Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com
> >
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > I think Mark has a point there (with anybody else I would have
> said, is
> >> > > on
> >> > > > the mark there): now that he mentions Burroughs I think he did it
> in
> >> > > Naked
> >> > > > Lunch, and, as Mark would say, we know that TRP has read NL. But
> he goes
> >> > > > further, of course.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Am So., 9. Dez. 2018 um 22:54 Uhr schrieb Mark Kohut <
> >> > > mark.kohut at gmail.com
> >> > > > >:
> >> > > >
> >> > > >> I've read many fewer Burroughs than he's written --and that long
> ago;
> >> > > >> long before Pynchon immersion --but does he fit your bill?
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> > On Dec 9, 2018, at 12:54 PM, Monte Davis <
> montedavis49 at gmail.com>
> >> > > >> wrote:
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > One of Pynchon's master tropes is to personify -- ascribe
> *agency* to
> >> > > --
> >> > > >> > resources and principles taken up by technology: coal and oil
> and
> >> > > >> calculus
> >> > > >> > and control theory in GR, astronomy and cartography in M&D,
> >> > > electricity
> >> > > >> and
> >> > > >> > aviation and silver halides in AtD, virtual "real estate" and
> its
> >> > > >> > monetization in BE, usw.
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > His most-cited surfacing (and questioning!) of this is Enzian
> at the
> >> > > >> ruined
> >> > > >> > -- so They say -- Jamf works in Hamburg (518-521), alternating
> between
> >> > > >> > "Technologies" lusting for their funding and "do you think
> we’d’ve had
> >> > > >> the
> >> > > >> > Rocket if someone, some specific somebody with a name and a
> penis
> >> > > hadn’t
> >> > > >> > wanted to chuck a ton of Amatol 300 miles and blow up a block
> full of
> >> > > >> > civilians? Go ahead, capitalize the T on technology, deify it
> if it’ll
> >> > > >> make
> >> > > >> > you feel less responsible -- but it puts you in with the
> neutered,
> >> > > >> > brother..."
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > Can you suggest other major authors/works that make strong
> thematic
> >> > > use
> >> > > >> of
> >> > > >> > this trope? In which it's stated or hinted that the "stuff"
> involved
> >> > > in
> >> > > >> > characters' drives and conflicts *wants* to be exploited, for
> ends
> >> > > that
> >> > > >> may
> >> > > >> > not be ours?
> >> > > >> > --
> >> > > >> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >> > > >> --
> >> > > >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >> > >
> >> > --
> >> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >> --
> >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>