Such dreams as stuff is made on

[Keith Davis]

Monte, It seems like it’s right outta that ole time religion, angels and devils, taking up residence in the bodies of pigs and stone circles and lights in the sky and bones thrown onto an antelope skin for augury...

Www.innergroovemusic.com

> On Jan 20, 2019, at 10:58 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Jerky,
> 
> God! Please don't do that. I didn't mean to chastise.
> 
> If I were to point to an example in Pynchon's work it would be Austra in
> MD. Slaves are the ultimate technology. She was a willing tool with a view
> toward deep revenge.
> 
> David Morris
> 
> On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 10:35 PM Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> I apologize.
>> 
>> YOPJ
>> 
>>> On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 10:25 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> This conversation has branched wildly from Monte's original question:
>> agency of exploited commodity welcoming exploitation for occult reasons (is
>> that correct?) in literature other than Pynchon.  An obvious non-occult
>> reason would be revenge. An occult one might be karma.  The golem might fit
>> both, because its motives are obscure.  The question hints at a deep
>> existential state with a very cynical bent.
>>> 
>>> David Morris
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 9:50 PM Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> The modern dance section from V. certainly has the feel of Parisian
>>>> fin-de-siecle post-Romantic "Satanism" to it.
>>>> 
>>>> Jerky
>>>> 
>>>> On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 10:16 AM Ian Livingston <
>> igrlivingston at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kafka, anyone?
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 6:30 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I might add in a general way that many writers in what we might
>> call the
>>>>>> Gothic nightmare genre
>>>>>> could fit the bill but often outside a technology trope, maybe?
>> Fulfilling
>>>>>> the literal question asked in the last paragraph.
>>>>>> Poe's Tell-Tale Heart tale comes to mind as a pure-enough example.
>> He has
>>>>>> more, of course.
>>>>>> . Re the technology trope, Frankenstein sorta fits, correct?
>> Melmoth the
>>>>>> Wanderer?
>>>>>> The Monk? Gothic castles, do they count?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just thinkin' unbidden.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 5:27 PM Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com
>>> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I think Mark has a point there (with anybody else I would have
>> said, is
>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> the mark there): now that he mentions Burroughs I think he did it
>> in
>>>>>> Naked
>>>>>>> Lunch, and, as Mark would say, we know that TRP has read NL. But
>> he goes
>>>>>>> further, of course.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Am So., 9. Dez. 2018 um 22:54 Uhr schrieb Mark Kohut <
>>>>>> mark.kohut at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> :
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I've read many fewer Burroughs than he's written --and that long
>> ago;
>>>>>>>> long before Pynchon immersion --but does he fit your bill?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 9, 2018, at 12:54 PM, Monte Davis <
>> montedavis49 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> One of Pynchon's master tropes is to personify -- ascribe
>> *agency* to
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> resources and principles taken up by technology: coal and oil
>> and
>>>>>>>> calculus
>>>>>>>>> and control theory in GR, astronomy and cartography in M&D,
>>>>>> electricity
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> aviation and silver halides in AtD, virtual "real estate" and
>> its
>>>>>>>>> monetization in BE, usw.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> His most-cited surfacing (and questioning!) of this is Enzian
>> at the
>>>>>>>> ruined
>>>>>>>>> -- so They say -- Jamf works in Hamburg (518-521), alternating
>> between
>>>>>>>>> "Technologies" lusting for their funding and "do you think
>> we’d’ve had
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> Rocket if someone, some specific somebody with a name and a
>> penis
>>>>>> hadn’t
>>>>>>>>> wanted to chuck a ton of Amatol 300 miles and blow up a block
>> full of
>>>>>>>>> civilians? Go ahead, capitalize the T on technology, deify it
>> if it’ll
>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>> you feel less responsible -- but it puts you in with the
>> neutered,
>>>>>>>>> brother..."
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Can you suggest other major authors/works that make strong
>> thematic
>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> this trope? In which it's stated or hinted that the "stuff"
>> involved
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> characters' drives and conflicts *wants* to be exploited, for
>> ends
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>> not be ours?
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>> --
>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> 
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l