Such dreams as stuff is made on

[Keith Davis]

Which, in hindsight, has nothing much to do with your question....

Www.innergroovemusic.com

> On Jan 20, 2019, at 10:58 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Jerky,
> 
> God! Please don't do that. I didn't mean to chastise.
> 
> If I were to point to an example in Pynchon's work it would be Austra in
> MD. Slaves are the ultimate technology. She was a willing tool with a view
> toward deep revenge.
> 
> David Morris
> 
> On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 10:35 PM Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> I apologize.
>> 
>> YOPJ
>> 
>>> On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 10:25 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> This conversation has branched wildly from Monte's original question:
>> agency of exploited commodity welcoming exploitation for occult reasons (is
>> that correct?) in literature other than Pynchon.  An obvious non-occult
>> reason would be revenge. An occult one might be karma.  The golem might fit
>> both, because its motives are obscure.  The question hints at a deep
>> existential state with a very cynical bent.
>>> 
>>> David Morris
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 9:50 PM Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> The modern dance section from V. certainly has the feel of Parisian
>>>> fin-de-siecle post-Romantic "Satanism" to it.
>>>> 
>>>> Jerky
>>>> 
>>>> On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 10:16 AM Ian Livingston <
>> igrlivingston at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kafka, anyone?
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 6:30 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I might add in a general way that many writers in what we might
>> call the
>>>>>> Gothic nightmare genre
>>>>>> could fit the bill but often outside a technology trope, maybe?
>> Fulfilling
>>>>>> the literal question asked in the last paragraph.
>>>>>> Poe's Tell-Tale Heart tale comes to mind as a pure-enough example.
>> He has
>>>>>> more, of course.
>>>>>> . Re the technology trope, Frankenstein sorta fits, correct?
>> Melmoth the
>>>>>> Wanderer?
>>>>>> The Monk? Gothic castles, do they count?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just thinkin' unbidden.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 5:27 PM Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com
>>> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I think Mark has a point there (with anybody else I would have
>> said, is
>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> the mark there): now that he mentions Burroughs I think he did it
>> in
>>>>>> Naked
>>>>>>> Lunch, and, as Mark would say, we know that TRP has read NL. But
>> he goes
>>>>>>> further, of course.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Am So., 9. Dez. 2018 um 22:54 Uhr schrieb Mark Kohut <
>>>>>> mark.kohut at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> :
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I've read many fewer Burroughs than he's written --and that long
>> ago;
>>>>>>>> long before Pynchon immersion --but does he fit your bill?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 9, 2018, at 12:54 PM, Monte Davis <
>> montedavis49 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> One of Pynchon's master tropes is to personify -- ascribe
>> *agency* to
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> resources and principles taken up by technology: coal and oil
>> and
>>>>>>>> calculus
>>>>>>>>> and control theory in GR, astronomy and cartography in M&D,
>>>>>> electricity
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> aviation and silver halides in AtD, virtual "real estate" and
>> its
>>>>>>>>> monetization in BE, usw.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> His most-cited surfacing (and questioning!) of this is Enzian
>> at the
>>>>>>>> ruined
>>>>>>>>> -- so They say -- Jamf works in Hamburg (518-521), alternating
>> between
>>>>>>>>> "Technologies" lusting for their funding and "do you think
>> we’d’ve had
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> Rocket if someone, some specific somebody with a name and a
>> penis
>>>>>> hadn’t
>>>>>>>>> wanted to chuck a ton of Amatol 300 miles and blow up a block
>> full of
>>>>>>>>> civilians? Go ahead, capitalize the T on technology, deify it
>> if it’ll
>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>> you feel less responsible -- but it puts you in with the
>> neutered,
>>>>>>>>> brother..."
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Can you suggest other major authors/works that make strong
>> thematic
>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> this trope? In which it's stated or hinted that the "stuff"
>> involved
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> characters' drives and conflicts *wants* to be exploited, for
>> ends
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>> not be ours?
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>> --
>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> 
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l