NP: Re: more new Dylan

[David Morris]

Thanks, Ish.

With his putting himself into the mix with his "I'm..." it also becomes a
bit like a boasting rap.  Is rap poetry?  I think words meant to be mixed
with music can't be judged sans music.

David Morris

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 4:38 AM ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:40 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > We must have different thoughts on what lyrical means.  To me it means a
> play of sound.  Tripping of tongue and lilt of sounds.
>
> OK, I should have understood your meaning the first time. So we agree
> it's not lyrical.
> >
> > I think Dylan's verse here is more grafitti than sonnet.  It is a
> purposeful mix of disconnected icons, tied together by the last line.
>
> Your quite a poet yourself, David. Read, with pleasure, many a haiku
> from you. I love your contrasting imagery here, of graffiti and
> sonnet. But Dylan's words here, while not so strictly arranged in a
> tight metric arrangement, surely not a traditional sonnet, are
> arranged in a traditional metric pattern,  so not graffiti either,
> though I get what you mean, and I agree that it's *more graffiti* than
> sonnet.  He is, though, still working in a traditional form, but it's
> quick, sprayed out, words of the prophets on the subway walls and
> tenement halls.
>
>
> >
> > I never said it was profound.  Others have said similar things with much
> greater finess.  But not many pop stars have.
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > David Morris
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:36 PM ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Doesn't need to be lyrical; didn't say it did, didn't say it is
> >> lyrical or isn't lyrical. I'll say it now, it is lyrical.
> >> A lyric poem has a song-like quality and an exploration of emotions
> >> and personal feelings.
> >>
> >> While poetry itself can't be defined, one of the characteristic of
> >> some great poetry is compression, that is, as you noted, "it makes a
> >> statement with very few words."
> >>
> >> But on four counts I say the lyric is not great poetry:
> >> it does not appeal to the intellect, there is nothing much to think
> >> about here, the final line of the excerpt Thomas posted is only one
> >> that nearly induces wonder or thought, but it's awkward, bad. Lost
> >> things are made good?
> >> it fails to excite the senses
> >> it does not move with emotion
> >> and it lacks imagination
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 4:39 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > It might not be lyrical, but that's not the only standard of poetry.
> It references familiar icons to make a statement with very few words.
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 3:04 PM ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Not sure what's inappropriate.
> >> >> It's not great poetry, that's for sure.
> >> >>
> >> >> > "I’m just like Anne Frank, like Indiana Jones
> >> >> > And them British bad boys, the Rolling Stones
> >> >> > I go right to the edge, I go right to the end
> >> >> > I go right where all things lost are made good again"
> >> --
> >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>