A Letter on Justice and Open Debate

[Mark Thibodeau]

Seconded.

YOPJ

On Sat, Jul 18, 2020 at 9:06 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:

> Let's not argue.  Let's share.
>
> I'd love to see Keith's links to what is his favorite Ellington recordings.
>
> David Morris
>
> On Sat, Jul 18, 2020 at 7:57 PM Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Really?
>>
>> I'm partial to Frank Zappa, myself.
>>
>> But there's no way I'm arguing music with YOU, Keith!  :-)
>>
>> Love,
>> yer old pal Jerky
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 18, 2020 at 7:56 PM Keith Davis <kbob42 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Duke Ellington is America’s greatest composer.
>> >
>> > Www.keithdavismusic.com
>> >
>> > > On Jul 18, 2020, at 5:54 PM, Gary Webb <gwebb8686 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > 
>> > > For Murray, there was perhaps no greater, no more heroic, no more
>> > representative American than Ellington.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks guys...cool stuff...I couldn’t agree more with Murray about
>> > Ellington...there is a peace and exuberance in his music that few
>> American
>> > musicians have been capable of capturing...to me, what Rachmaninoff is
>> to
>> > Europe and European music, Ellington is to the United States...
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tabletmag.com/amp/sections/arts-letters/articles/the-omni-americans
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Sent from my iPhone
>> > >
>> > >>> On Jul 18, 2020, at 4:14 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >> If anyone is also interested, Thomas chatterton Williams wrote the
>> new
>> > intro to Murray’s Omni-Americans.
>> > >>
>> > >> Sent from my iPhone
>> > >>
>> > >>> On Jul 18, 2020, at 3:35 PM, Keith Davis <kbob42 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> If anyone is interested, Thomas Chatterton Williams is on the
>> Useful
>> > Idiots
>> > >>> podcast with Matt Taibbi and
>> > >>> Katie Halper this weekend.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> https://youtu.be/MijFtGQYowg
>> > >>>
>> > >>>>> On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 3:18 PM Gary Webb <gwebb8686 at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> It’s probably because nobody wants Ronan Farrow coming after
>> them...
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> But they’re powerful people, those whom were mentioned, and they
>> can
>> > >>>> shield themselves from harm... the ugly side is when these online
>> > mobs take
>> > >>>> out normal people, those that can’t shield themselves with money
>> and
>> > >>>> power....and its not a Right or Left thing, they all do it... so
>> maybe
>> > >>>> Weiss should have said no more doxing Internet anons to enable
>> > violence
>> > >>>> against them... just a universal disavowing of all political
>> > violence...
>> > >>>> but no, that’s the game they all play now...
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>>> On Jul 17, 2020, at 1:20 PM, Laura Kelber <laurakelber at gmail.com
>> >
>> > wrote:
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> And the censorship comes not from these vitriolic stone-throwers
>> but
>> > >>>> from
>> > >>>>> the bottom-line capitalists who decide that publishing or
>> producing
>> > work
>> > >>>>> from Rowling or anyone else hapless enough to be attacked is too
>> > >>>>> financially risky. Woody Allen's latest movie streams in assorted
>> > places
>> > >>>> in
>> > >>>>> Europe and Asia but no one dares show it in the democratic USA.
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>> On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 7:46 AM Thomas Eckhardt <
>> > >>>> thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de>
>> > >>>>>> wrote:
>> > >>>>>> I am certainly not going to wade into the topic either...
>> > >>>>>>>> Am 17.07.2020 um 11:51 schrieb John Bailey:
>> > >>>>>>>> I'm not attacking or defending Rowling, or wading into the
>> topic
>> > she
>> > >>>>>> waded into.
>> > >>>>>>> But the angry tweets referred to in Thomas' article aren't
>> > censorship.
>> > >>>>>> I am not saying they are. They are misogynist insults, however,
>> hate
>> > >>>>>> speech and cyber bullying. Of course, the tweets have been
>> selected
>> > for
>> > >>>>>> maximum effect, but still.
>> > >>>>>>> That's what democratic 'open debate' looks like.
>> > >>>>>> No. This is hate speech, not debate. It should not be censored
>> but
>> > it
>> > >>>>>> should certainly also not be treated as a legitimate
>> contribution to
>> > >>>>>> reasonable debate.
>> > >>>>>>> If you say something
>> > >>>>>>> that some people find hateful, some of them might respond in
>> ways
>> > that
>> > >>>>>>> you don't like.
>> > >>>>>> Yes.
>> > >>>>>>> If you're truly committed to open debate you'll engage
>> > >>>>>>> in dialogue with these foul dissenters.
>> > >>>>>> You believe a woman should engage in dialogue with people calling
>> > her a
>> > >>>>>> c*nt, inviting her to choke on their d*cks and publicly
>> expressing
>> > their
>> > >>>>>> wish to slap her around, smack her up and punch her in the head?
>> > And if
>> > >>>>>> she doesn't, she is not committed to "open debate"? Sorry, but
>> this
>> > is
>> > >>>>>> ridiculous.
>> > >>>>>>> Or you can just demonise them. That's a tactic.
>> > >>>>>> The people who wrote these tweets are not demons but idiots who
>> are
>> > >>>>>> ideologically blindsided to a degree that makes me almost feel
>> > sorry for
>> > >>>>>> them.
>> > >>>>>> --
>> > >>>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> > >>>>> --
>> > >>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> > >>>> --
>> > >>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> --
>> > >>> www.keithdavismusic.com
>> > >>> --
>> > >>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> > --
>> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> >
>> --
>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>
>