Late capitalism a quote

[Mark Kohut]

I, controversially, I'm sure, disagreed with by most (seen as
positively arrogant for my belief held amidst all of Pynchon's ambiguities)
see Pynchon presenting a clear
vision---the narrating artist's vision---that violence leads to
violence----the way Frank dies for example, a meaning within the context of
the text-- and so much more---

On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 6:27 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> On the other hand, by the time we get to the growing remnants of the
> Traverse clan in Humboldt County (Vineland) at the final picnic scene the
> unions are still alive and supporting each other. And in ATD, Kit and
> Lake's path were a lot lonelier than Reef or Frank’s. And one can only be
> so surprised that union members did not want to identify with someone who
> had just been murdered by company thugs.
>    The primary and most effective tactic of the unions was the non-violent
> withholding of labor to achieve bargaining status. This cost them many
> lives and made things better for future workers. Do people have a right to
> self defense or violent revolution against an oppressive government? US
> history started twith that premise,  but violence has many downsides as a
> means to justice, quickly becomes a bad habit. Pynchon seems to be able to
> offer a nuanced  picture of these struggles but not much sympathy for the
> violence of plutocrats or state aggression which were far out of proportion
> to the relatively rare instances of anarchist violence.
>
> > On Dec 24, 2021, at 9:46 AM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I still find it interesting no one from the union shows up to Webb's
> funeral. as Reef says 'fuck'em'. I like when Pynchon throws in those little
> nuances
> >
> > rich
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 9:21 AM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com
> <mailto:fqmorris at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > I think Rich’s take on ease and pragmatics proves true as presented by
> Pynchon when you examine the case of Webb Traverse in ATD.  Webb starts out
> a truly likable guy, but still die-hard anti-owner/pro-labor,
> criminal-activist who parts ways with his youngest son over a dispute about
> principles.  But over the course of the book, things change…  including
> Webb.  I’ll get back to you all about the nature of that change in ATD, but
> it shouldn’t be surprising to anyone that Pynchon doesn’t see these things
> in B&W.
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 8:48 AM rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com <mailto:
> richard.romeo at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > you all blame capitalism like you blame religion, state, technology or
> the
> > matrix. easy to offload all that angst onto a concept. maybe it makes you
> > feel better but nothing changes, does it? most of us dont want radical
> > change. the simple matter is whatever we live in provides to most. that
> may
> > be hard to stomach. but it's true. prophets are the biggest hypocrites
> >
> > rich
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 12:04 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net <mailto:
> brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
> >
> > > This topic came up earlier and I just found this quote in conversation
> > > about Igor paying Maxine for warning about Madoff pyramid scheme.
> Madoff
> > > had a Pynchonian name without even trying. One of Madoff's kids was at
> a
> > > school where I teach an evening  art class . Very hard on him.
> > >
> > > March
> > > “No, I meant late capitalism is a pyramid racket on a global scale, the
> > > kind of pyramid you do human sacrifices up on top of, meantime getting
> the
> > > suckers to believe it’s all gonna go on forever.”
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
> > >
> > --
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> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>
> --
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