AW: Re: Serious news from Europe on Ukraine

[David Morris]

Those in power [Hubshite, again, as Russia’s voice here] will continue to
split hairs forever, in their own favor in [all] matters of dispute,
because who is going to stop them.

On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 11:07 AM Hübschräuber via Pynchon-l <
pynchon-l at waste.org> wrote:

> ------- Original Message -------
> Martin Dietze <mdietze at gmail.com> schrieb am Donnerstag, 10. Februar 2022
> um 08:41:
>
> > I did address it. Debaltseve did not need to be included in the
> agreement, because it was never about particular places. It simply stated
> that both sides stayed where they are.
> >
> > Hence the situation is crystal clear.
> >
> > And really, this is getting silly. The facts around Debaltseve have long
> been known and are widely accepted. No need to keep pulling out nifty
> details in Russia’s defence.
>
> Yes, you did address it.
>
> I take your point on Debaltseve. Still, the situation is far from "crystal
> clear". As that other article noted: "This glaring omission was interpreted
> in different ways by different people." Your say one of those
> interpretations is the only valid one. I do not support the Separatists'
> interpretation of this part of the Agreement, as I know too little about
> the matter, but it should be mentioned that it exists.
>
> I understand that "nifty details" are not relevant when one is "defending
> Russia" ( just as the Nuland-Pyatt phone call in which they selected the
> next Ukrainian government is "irrelevant"), but of the utmost importance
> when one states that the UPA/ONU collaborated with the Nazis.
>
> As regards the grand scheme of things, these words by the noted
> Soviet/Russian propagandist George Kennan might be of interest:
>
> "But something of the highest importance is at stake here. And perhaps it
> is not too late to advance a view that, I believe, is not only mine alone
> but is shared by a number of others with extensive and in most instances
> more recent experience in Russian matters. The view, bluntly stated, is
> that expanding NATO would be the most fateful error of American policy in
> the entire post-cold-war era.
>
> Such a decision may be expected to inflame the nationalistic, anti-Western
> and militaristic tendencies in Russian opinion; to have an adverse effect
> on the development of Russian democracy; to restore the atmosphere of the
> cold war to East-West relations, and to impel Russian foreign policy in
> directions decidedly not to our liking.“
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/1997/02/05/opinion/a-fateful-error.html
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>