NP: On the Ukraine thread

[David Morris]

I briefly read it. But it was so accusing of all things that didn’t fit
Russian propaganda, and trashing the biggest victims in this horrible
Russian-made crisis, the Ukrainian people, who just won’t lie back and get
fucked as they would if they knew what’s best for them (like Joe knows),
it’s REALLY offensive.

On Fri, Feb 18, 2022 at 6:30 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:

> Right to the trash, unread.....waiting on BE, Joe...
>
> On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 11:55 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Joe,
>>
>> You really have crossed the line into becoming actually offensive with
>> these last statements and accusations.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 11:27 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>>
>> > More shrill warnings  from White House, UK and press of invasion
>> tomorrow
>> > that continues not to happen. Party leaders really seem to want a war
>> and
>> > want to say the only thing keeping Russia from invading is sanctions
>> which
>> > is clearly lame crap.  I think this is leading toward a democratic
>> defeat
>> > in Nov. Biden can’t be much more of a duck but he can be even more
>> lamed as
>> > a leader.
>> >
>> > I don’t see or hear credible claims that the Russian Army is occupying
>> any
>> > part of Ukraine.You keep saying that but that is not being reported.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The Red Cross reports firing and dangers from mines and unexploded
>> > ordinace on both sides of east west lines which has picked up again as
>> > Biden war talk escalates. The ones being killed in this article were on
>> the
>> > east side of the line. You make it sound that all aggression is from
>> > Russia. I think you know this is false.  To be honest you seem to want
>> > Russia to attack. I still think this highly unlkely but the US by saying
>> > they have intel of flase flag attack can have a real attack, call it
>> false
>> > flag and who will stop the the killing.  I continue to find Russia’s
>> stated
>> > demands are resonable and the basis for starting to make peace and allow
>> > Ukraine to unite with recognition of the rights of all regional
>> interesests
>> > and ethnicities.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > On Feb 14, 2022, at 12:10 PM, Martin Dietze <mdietze at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On 14. February 2022 at 17:57:41, Joseph Tracy (brook7 at sover.net
>> > <mailto:brook7 at sover.net>) wrote:
>> > >
>> > >>  In fact the deal is not that broken, the lines are the same, there
>> is
>> > little to no fighting being reported and the remaining  issue is Nato.
>> > >
>> > > Nope, it isn’t. According to the Minsk II elections in the occupied
>> > territories have to be held according to Ukrainian law. There is no way
>> > that elections deserving that very name can be held there unless Russia
>> > gives up its claim to keep 100% control over there. The previous
>> > “elections” were like this: a separatist ran against another separatist
>> > (which, unlike the first, was not allowed to campaign). Pro-Ukrainian
>> > parties were completely forbidden. The election was rigged.
>> > >
>> > > Ukraine is right not to let this happen. And it is not the dealbreaker
>> > here, in particular because all this blaming Ukraine is ridiculous given
>> > the past as I have pointed out.
>> > >
>> > >> The only one who cares about Ukrainians is Ukrainians.
>> > >
>> > > Sure. That’s nothing new.
>> > >
>> > >> If there is stagnation, debt and corruption after the revolution they
>> > can no longer blame Russia.
>> > >
>> > > Wrong. Russia leads war in Ukraine. Every week young Ukrainian
>> soldiers
>> > are killed by snipers or grenades. Ukraine needs to spend quite a big
>> > portion of its state budget on its army. Russia blocks free trade
>> through
>> > the Kerch strait at will causing a big problem for Eastern Ukrainian
>> > economy. The current situation has lead to foreign companies withdrawing
>> > from Ukraine and flights being cancelled. These are quite significant
>> > factors solely caused by Russia.
>> > >
>> > > There are of course internal problems, like corruption. However the
>> > country had been doing relatively well compared to other post soviet
>> > countries depite of this.
>> > >
>> > >>  I said this because politicians rally voters around who to blame,
>> not
>> > because Ukraine is uniquely problematic. But this tactic can only
>> continue
>> > through the premise that Russia has or wants dominance. And that looks
>> hard
>> > to sustain. I don’t think they want your country. What would it add to
>> them
>> > but endless headaches?
>> > >
>> > > Russia does want dominance. The Ukrainians know this very well,
>> because
>> > they have been the target of Russian “hard power” for quite a number of
>> > years already (like Russia drastically increasing gas prices in January
>> > 2005 after Ukraine had “dared” to elect the “wrong” president).
>> > >
>> > > When sitting thousands of miles away where it’s cosy and warm, and
>> with
>> > no foreign army in your country, making such statements about a foreign
>> > country subjected to war and aggression is a bit … peculiar.
>> > >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> >
>
>
>> --
>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>
>