NP - for the Ukraine discussion group

[Joseph Tracy]

It just seems to me in considering Ukraine and Ukrainians as subject, the danger of provoking an unnecessary war  might be a primary consideration for them as such a war is likely to bring enormous damage to Ukrainians.   As far as a country that talks about others infinging on their vital interests, this is the common, widely used language of the US government. The sad truth is that we , certainly the US,  have not learned shit since 1945. We continue to invade and blockade, torture  and drone using the language of vital national interests. 
   

> On Jan 28, 2022, at 11:16 AM, Martin Dietze <mdietze at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Howdy, too.
> While I most likely will not agree with him, I'm out anyway.
> I really want to concentrate on providing first hand information on Ukraine
> (maybe also debunking myths) and on insisting that the ones making decision
> about Ukraine's future should really be its people.
> I doubt that "geopolitical intellctualism" is beneficial, regardless which
> direction it chooses, as long as Ukraine is treated as an object rather
> than a subject.
> The Mearsheimers of this world tend to do just that.
> 
> Plase just try to imagine your country and your people being talked like
> this: there's a crisis about you, you violate other countries' "vital
> interests", you're supposed to remain in some other country's "sphere of
> interests", and your vital interests (which you have a right to have, just
> consider the KSCE agreement all super powers have signed) are in fact
> considered irrelevant, you're actually being blamed to be manipulated by
> THEM. What would your reaction be like?
> 
> That's my perspective. If not the people are put first, if international
> contracts are being ignored and the "weaker countries" just get a kick in
> the bottom, then we haven't learned a shit since 1945.
> 
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 at 16:19, matthew cissell <mccissell at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Howdy,
>> 
>> By following the exchange between the various parties on this subject, I
>> have certainly been prompted to chase down some references.
>> 
>> Then the YT algo stepped in and chucked a lecture at me. University of
>> Chicago Professor John Mearsheimer gave a lecture back in 2015 called
>> "UnCommon
>> Core: The Causes and Consequences of the Ukraine Crisis". I think it has
>> aged well; you can find other videos in which he talks on the subject. He
>> is far from being a hawkish republican. In 40 minutes you get his message,
>> and it's worth listening to.
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4
>> 
>> ciao
>> mc otis
>> 
>> <
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>>> 
>> Libre
>> de virus. www.avast.com
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