NP - for the Ukraine discussion group

[Martin Dietze]

And that's why you think it's legitimate to let Moscow do the same to
Ukraine?
Well...

On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 at 18:31, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> It just seems to me in considering Ukraine and Ukrainians as subject, the
> danger of provoking an unnecessary war  might be a primary consideration
> for them as such a war is likely to bring enormous damage to Ukrainians.
>  As far as a country that talks about others infinging on their vital
> interests, this is the common, widely used language of the US government.
> The sad truth is that we , certainly the US,  have not learned shit since
> 1945. We continue to invade and blockade, torture  and drone using the
> language of vital national interests.
>
>
> > On Jan 28, 2022, at 11:16 AM, Martin Dietze <mdietze at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Howdy, too.
> > While I most likely will not agree with him, I'm out anyway.
> > I really want to concentrate on providing first hand information on
> Ukraine
> > (maybe also debunking myths) and on insisting that the ones making
> decision
> > about Ukraine's future should really be its people.
> > I doubt that "geopolitical intellctualism" is beneficial, regardless
> which
> > direction it chooses, as long as Ukraine is treated as an object rather
> > than a subject.
> > The Mearsheimers of this world tend to do just that.
> >
> > Plase just try to imagine your country and your people being talked like
> > this: there's a crisis about you, you violate other countries' "vital
> > interests", you're supposed to remain in some other country's "sphere of
> > interests", and your vital interests (which you have a right to have,
> just
> > consider the KSCE agreement all super powers have signed) are in fact
> > considered irrelevant, you're actually being blamed to be manipulated by
> > THEM. What would your reaction be like?
> >
> > That's my perspective. If not the people are put first, if international
> > contracts are being ignored and the "weaker countries" just get a kick in
> > the bottom, then we haven't learned a shit since 1945.
> >
> > On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 at 16:19, matthew cissell <mccissell at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Howdy,
> >>
> >> By following the exchange between the various parties on this subject, I
> >> have certainly been prompted to chase down some references.
> >>
> >> Then the YT algo stepped in and chucked a lecture at me. University of
> >> Chicago Professor John Mearsheimer gave a lecture back in 2015 called
> >> "UnCommon
> >> Core: The Causes and Consequences of the Ukraine Crisis". I think it has
> >> aged well; you can find other videos in which he talks on the subject.
> He
> >> is far from being a hawkish republican. In 40 minutes you get his
> message,
> >> and it's worth listening to.
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4
> >>
> >> ciao
> >> mc otis
> >>
> >> <
> >>
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> >> <
> >>
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