GRAYZONE, that black rag: Can't cut & paste

[Martin Dietze]

Yes, it *does* matter, who wrote the stuff you're sharing here. Most of the
names you mention are no experts on Eastern Europe but rather (often:
self-proclaimed) "experts" on "geo politics", known for both their pro
Putin stance and sharing conspiracy theories. Outlets like the Greyzone are
known for the same.

Katchanovski is somewhat different. He has become the anti-Western, Ukraine
conspiracy theory fans' poster boy after publishing an article laying out
his theories on the Maidan shootings in February 2014 - an article that had
not undergone any peer reviews, hence of no scientific relevance, and would
most appropriately be classified as a "blog". There's nothing bad about
this per se, but Katchanovski has never *proven* anything. His theories are
nothing more than theories, and they haven't been adopted (or taken
terribly seriously) by the community. However *because* he shares what anti
Westerners and conspiracy theorists had "known" right from the start, his
article and all the comments and notes he has published on this since then
have been taken by these people as "proof" - which they aren't.

Another comment (rant) on "geo politics" which has become kind of a
religion to some. "Geo political" analysis is very convenient, because you
don't need to know anything about the particular conflict, crisis etc. you
want to "analyse": the basic pattern behind "geo politics" (i.e. there are
the super powers, they have their interests, and everything can be
explained by this) allow you to write stuff that (a) sounds good, (b) seems
logical and (c) will guarantee you the community's applause and agreement.

There's lots of these "experts" on "geo politics" (take Pablo Escobar for
instance) who clearly haben't got the slightest clue about Ukraine, what
has happened there and what is still happening there, and who still keep
publishing about it, being cited and shared by others. And what these
people publish will pop up in publications like "The Greyzone" (supposedly
"left"), the UNZ Review (alt-right, anti-semitic), The Saker (openly pro
Putin) etc. These publications form a network where left and right hold
hands - that's what some people call "Third Position".

It is also worthwhile looking up more information about authors. A good
number of those you mentioned not only hold rather controversial positions,
they also are part of Putin's networks - something you can rather easily
identify when such names pop up in Putin's "Valdai Discussion Club" (to
which *only* people with "friendly" positions are invited), or publish in
Putin's propaganda outlet "Russia Today" on a regular basis.

"Alternative media" are a business model, and one of their key elements are
conspiracy theories: they are a key part of these outlets' Loyalty business
model, telling customers that "mainstream media" don't tell the "whole
truth" and only in "alternative media" people learn what's really going on.
Conspiracy theories prove themselves. Once people have started believing in
them they will rigorously reject any information proving them wrong - and
generate the revenue keeping these outlets alive.

Long story short: sources *do matter*. Believers will however continue
believing once they have entered the infinite conspiracy theory feedback
loop.

Cheers,

m.

P.S.: I seem to remember you were unhappy about me replying to off-topic,
non-Pynchon posts here. This problem can be solved: just stop posting
off-topic contents others cannot stay silent about.



On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 at 02:43, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> When Kohut  or Morris treat me with some respect I will do likewise. But I
> never use honorifics. I don’t remember being called Mr. Tracy by anyone on
> the list, so don’t hold your breath, Martin.
>
> There are many journalists and writers like those of media outlets like
> Consortium News, the Grayzone, Scheerpost, Resistance Radio, the Scott
> Horton Show, Ray McGovern’s podcast,  along with individual writers like
> Jeffrey Sachs, Oliver Stone, Julian Assange, Ed Snowden, Scott Ritter,
> Seymour Hersch, Jeff Gerth, Doug McGregor, or Matt Taibbi  who question the
> US government via actual research and facts and very persuasive logic.
> Calling these regularly published writers and former insiders "Putin’s
> mouthpiece" is a truly lame and baseless accusation, Joe McCarthy would be
> proud.  How about truth-tellers who got it right on several issues while
> Kohut and Morris, whose mail I rarely open, got it dead wrong. How about
> people who have risked their lives to tell the truth. Did a single one of
> you read the article or have a challenge for any fact reported by the
> Grayzone writers or Consortium News.
>   There were 2 incidents of mass killing in the Maidan Coup involving
> about 110 people murdered. These crimes were never investigated to this
> day. The Canadian writer, academic, Ivan Katchanovski,  did a deep dive
> into the question and his thoroughly documented report initially received
> with enthusiasm, and supported by the likes of Jeffrey Sachs went
> unpublished with no challenge to his research.  All you can think to do is
> call names at a publisher. Pathetic.
>
>
>
> > On Mar 15, 2023, at 3:01 AM, Martin Dietze <mdietze at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 at 05:58, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net <mailto:
> brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
> > Seems like Kohut uses artificial intelligence on a regular basis.
> >
> > "Mr. Kohut" would be more appropriate. Does this rudeness happen to have
> any connection to the "alternative media" you seem to consume on a regular
> basis?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Martin (by the way I'm fine with you addressing me as "Martin"; if you
> don't like this, "Dr. Dietze" will do)
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Martin Dietze
> > [https://www.martins-braindumps.de/ <https://www.martins-braindumps.de/
> >]
> >
> > 1. Vorsitzender - Deutsch-Ukrainischer Kulturverein e.V.
> > Голова - Німецько-Українське Товариство Культури
> > [http://www.deutsch-ukrainischer-kulturverein.de/ <
> http://www.deutsch-ukrainischer-kulturverein.de/>]
> >
> > Redakteur / Редактор - Karpaty Lviv Nachrichten
> > [https://karpaty-lviv-nachrichten.com <
> https://karpaty-lviv-nachrichten.com/>]
>
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>


-- 
Dr. Martin Dietze
[https://www.martins-braindumps.de/]

1. Vorsitzender - Deutsch-Ukrainischer Kulturverein e.V.
Голова - Німецько-Українське Товариство Культури
[http://www.deutsch-ukrainischer-kulturverein.de/]

Redakteur / Редактор - Karpaty Lviv Nachrichten
[https://karpaty-lviv-nachrichten.com]