CoL49 Group Reading

[O G]

Yet if it is true that the future forms the past, which seems true enough,
then it would not be entirely inaccurate to suggest Thompson formed Metzger
when he wrote Fear and Loathing.  I was not suggesting that, but it would
be a tremendous reading of the material.  As far as all that is about, it
would not be utterly insane to suggest Gravity's Rainbow formed the second
war.  The nature of probabilities allows it, if one has a creative enough
interpretation of probabilities.

Some of us are not hemmed in by beliefs about illusory physical laws
regarding gravitation and things like limitations on the probable.  This
entire system age is about shackling the probable and sleepwalking through
it.  Such causal and temporal musings are worth expanding because they
concern the vital elements of limitlessness.

It would be absurd to raise these ideas in a group dedicated to the
writings of say Ann Coulter.  But they may have valid application in this
one.  Again I was not implying Metzger was lifted from Gonzo, or even that
Del Toro lifted his schtick from Cage, but denying the possibility caused
me to wish that I had, as the notion has more probable validity than the
belief that the second war came after the first.

Ultimately I am saying, everything depends on Johnny Depp.

On Tue, May 14, 2024, 5:43 PM O G <octogonalyoyo at gmail.com> wrote:

> What's worse is the movie didn't come out until at least '83, '84, and I
> kept thinking Leaving Las Vegas while seeing Del Toro.
>
> Not thinking about the Leaving movie, as in viewing it in my head and
> always seeing Del Toro's Fear and Loathing character acting in the place of
> the FaceOff guy's Leaving character and Del Toro saying the Leaving lines.
> By now yes but not earlier.
>
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2024, 3:52 PM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thompson's book was years later, we know.....Hunter doesn't seem to me to
>> get character-creating clues from
>> other novels....esp a so-minor character BUT.........could be a real
>> social type of the times those two geniuses
>> saw and created separately.....
>>
>> On Tue, May 14, 2024 at 1:01 PM O G <octogonalyoyo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If you're into water and lakes for the unconscious, I was going to point
>>> out that the I Ching 49 hexagram is the well.  But then I checked and the
>>> well is 48, not 49.  Hexagram 49 is revolution.  "Chaos from order,"
>>> according to the "interpretation" I randomly clicked on.
>>>
>>> I have also gotten into my head that Metzger looks and acts just like
>>> Benicio Del Toro in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.  I hope that doesn't
>>> poison anyone else's well.
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 10, 2024 at 4:12 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > On May 10, 2024, at 12:57 PM, Laura Kelber <laurakelber at gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > So Pierce is a kind of shape-shifter, like the Norse character Loki.
>>> > > I know that Pynchon references the icy North in GR. But are there any
>>> > Norse
>>> > > mythology references in COL49, other than (maybe) Pierce as Loki?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > What comes to mind is the Icy unswimmable waters of Lago di Prieta,
>>> > rhyming with icy waters navigated by the submarine Justine, rhyming
>>> with
>>> > the cold lake where the flower of Faggian youth ended up in their
>>> battle
>>> > with Tristero, by which Nicole was killed,,  and the strangely named
>>> > Fangoso lagoon( strange because it is for scuba divers who would want
>>> > clarity to explore the imported Spanish galleons, but Fangoso means
>>> muddy,
>>> > murky.) Bones in the cold depths everywhere. And some question as to
>>> who
>>> > knows where the bodies are buried which Oedipa is curious about but
>>> > Metzger, Cohen and Driblet discourage.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Water is the commonest symbol for the unconscious.
>>> > The lake in the valley is the unconscious, which lies, as it were,
>>> > underneath consciousness, so that it is often referred to as the
>>> > “subconscious,” usually with the pejorative connotation of an inferior
>>> > consciousness.
>>> > Water is the “valley spirit,” the water dragon of Tao, whose nature
>>> > resembles water- a yang in the yin, therefore, water means spirit that
>>> has
>>> > become unconscious.
>>> > Archetypes of the Collective Unconscious
>>> > Paragraph 40
>>> > --
>>> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> >
>>> --
>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>
>>